Wednesday, July 13, 2005

Comment on Gush Katif

I have been fortunate to get permission from Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick to publish comments on the Gush Katif situation. He emphasised to me that these comments are his own personal opinion and not a psak or specific post. It is a private opinion expressed in clarification of some misrepresentations of his opinions that have been mentioned here and in other places.
Thank you Rabbi Gutnick for your comments.
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I think the reason why blogsites, of whatever nature, will not receive official comments from the "powers that be" is that many of the anonymous posters, especially if they hold dissenting views, tend to attack/revile the messenger and not the message –despite some laudable attempts at times by some well-meaning moderators to limit this. While it is important that there be forums to raise and debate such issues I do not believe that the anonymous nature of a blogsite is the most effective or constructive method of doing so.

Nevertheless I believe I have been quoted on at least one blogsite re the Gush Katif situation, so, despite some hesitation, I think I need to make further comment.

I had been approached from a number of individuals to express an opinion on the activities being organised in our community regarding the current situation in Israel and I had replied in general terms. In view of the way I have since been indiscriminately quoted I think that I now need to be a little more specific.

There are three issues involved in the question at hand.

The first issue is that, to my knowledge, all Torah-true authorities are unanimous in the belief that the evacuation of the settlements in Gaza and elsewhere are a real sakonah for Israel and the Jewish people there. I do not need to elaborate on the Halachic issues – they have been well publicised in numerous forums. Certainly the Lubavitcher Rebbe's opinion regarding the dangers and issur of giving back land is particularly well known and well documented. To me this issue is beyond question. In the current circumstance in Israel there should be no "land for peace" deals.

The second issue is what form of action should be taken by us in Chutz La'Aretz to promote and implement that point of view? In the past, the Lubavitcher Rebbe (who, quite apart from his spiritual cognisance, through his vast personal following and contacts was without doubt the most informed of all Rabbinic leaders) has unambiguously and specifically condemned the resort to public demonstrations as counter-productive and dangerous. It has been argued that the circumstances that elicited such opposition may have been different to the current situation. On the other hand there are those that argue that for security and unity reasons, and where such street demonstration in particular publicly highlights the issue of Jew against Jew, there is even more reason to refrain from public demonstrations on this issue. The acceptable course of action in these circumstances would surely be shev v'al ta'aseh odif ("if in doubt – don't") and we would need to maintain the opposition to public street demonstrations – at least in Chutz LaAretz – unless, of course, there is a clear and specific heter from reliable and responsible halachic authorities for any particular public protest. (This policy may be more flexible in Eretz Yisrael where the voice of the people, expressed through peaceful demonstration, may indeed have more positive effect and a direct impact on government and government policy. But even in such circumstances this would be up to the relevant authorities in Israel to assess - based on their more intimate knowledge of the positive effectiveness and consequences of any such demonstrations as opposed to negative consequences and results.)

This does not mean that we in Chutz La'aretz should remain inactive. Far from it. Firstly, Chazal have told us over and over again that at a time of an evil decree we need to resort to Teshuvah Tephillah and Tzedokoh. Rather than engage in questionable public street demonstrations, our activists, and indeed all of us, should channel activities into promoting, within our community, these methods that have been taught to us by Chazal as being the most effective and positive. A peaceful and non-political community gathering, promoting Teshuva, Tephillah and Tzedokoh would have resulted in a much more unified and constructive response than the current unilateral and divisive proposed street march. Certainly these three issues of Teshuvah, Tephillah and Tzedokoh also need to be encouraged to be translated into our private lives as well. Properly organised communal information sessions, written protests/petitions to Sharon, other members of Knesset and others of influence as well as appropriate advertisements (in appropriate forums) etc are all effective methods of action and protest that probably would have been more universally accepted and ultimately more productive.

In general, those, from all sides, purporting to represent the voice of the community in this issue should have been more consultative with other communal authorities and particularly with Daas Torah. This may have then averted the current controversy over the proposed street march here in Melbourne that is not only questionable as to whether it will be of any positive benefit but has, unfortunately, caused divisiveness and disunity amongst those who are in reality otherwise united in their opposition to the current withdrawal policy.

The third issue is the reaction to any actual forced relocation of the people of Gush Katif and elsewhere that may, G-d forbid, eventually take place. There is no question in my mind that the Rebbe, and indeed any other responsible Torah authority, would be totally against any action that would result in one Jew harming another. Nothing other than "passive/non-violent resistance" should be practiced, advocated or condoned in this entire issue.

May HaShem have rachmonus on us and grant us, and particularly those in Eretz Yisrael, the sechel to do what will best result in the safety, security and unity of all our people wherever they may be found until the imminent arrival of the Geula Shlaima.

Kol Tuv,

Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick

69 comments:

  1. Finally a Rabbi we can look toward for leadership. Hoepfully he is following in his father's footsteps!

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  2. I applaud anyone who opposes violence, and certainly some people who oppose the disengagement have turned to violence. And I would never presume to argue about halacha with the Rabbi. But I have to disagree on the Sakonah - danger - mentioned. I'm sorry, but it is up to the military and intelligence experts to determine what the physical danger to Israel would be if the plan is executed (or what the consequences would be if it is not). If the Rabbi believed that the danger is spiritual, he should make it clear.
    It is easy to debate strategy from afar. When it is time for me to pack my bags and serve 24 days guarding a settlement that should not be, risking life and limb, I do it without debate; but it doesn't prevent people from labelling me "un-Jew", "anti-Zionist", and much worse.
    Territory comes and goes. Jews should know that better than anyone. The hate that tears the people apart - that is the true problem, and no one is talking about it.

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  3. Reb Mottel writes;
    ... all Torah-true authorities are unanimous in the belief that the evacuation of the settlements in Gaza and elsewhere are a real sakonah for Israel and the Jewish people there.
    >>
    WADR, that is an untrue and/or misinformed comment. Many of the gedolei yisrael and probably MOST of the gedolei yisrael were never for annexation of these areas and are definitely pro giving them back if it means less bloodshed for acheinu bnei yisrael. I have been folling this for decades and unfortunately som e Lubavitchers try to giv ethe impression that all religious Jews have these views. Take a look at th Agudah in Israel. Their rabbinic leadership includes many rebbes and rabbonim but only 2 or 3have expressed views against disengagement. None of the Litvish gedolim of the Degel have objected publicly in principle. Similarly the Sfardi charedim especially Chacham Ovadia Yosef who strongly believes in land for peace. he Belzer rebbe long ago strongly stated this. Then of course we have the gedolim from the Edah Charedis camp/Satmar/Brisk/Karlin etc etc who al place lives before land.

    And with all the respect to the hold rebbe zecher tzaddik livracha, I remember how strongly he campaigned against returning Sinai to the Egyptians. The israeli govt ignored him and lo and behold israel has had a 'cold' peace with Egypt for over 20 years. Countless lives have been saved by this 'land for peace' deal which other gedolim DID endorse - as they do today. So I would appreciate if Rabbi Gutnick gave his views but - without any embellishment of the facts.
    As the these orange nutcases - why aren't they in israel getting bashed up by the police and soldiers rather than put on such 'bravery' shows here?

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  4. Ex-Chabadnik: There may indeed have been other views expressed in the past but in reading Rav Gutnick's comments again I believe he is referring to the current Gush Katif situation. As the Rabbi correctly says, EVERYONE agrees that land for peace deals are fraught with sakanah. Where there may have been differences in the past is whether the sakanah of giving back land is outwieghed by the supposed adavantages of land for peace deals. However, the Gush Katif disenagament plan is not just a simple land for peace deal as dealt with in the past. It involves ceding control not to a recognised sovereign country or entity such as Egypt but to an unstable coalition of known murderers and terrorists. I also have not seen ONE recognised Gadol- Chassidish, Litvish, Sefardi, Agudah, Mizrachi etc who has come out in favour of this current disengagement plan for Gush Katif. If, as you claim, there indeed are any of the accepted Gedolei Torah who have clearly come out in favour of this latest disengagement plan, then I for one would be interested to see names and details in explicit confirmation of this fact!

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  5. I will sign my own name as I feel extremely concerned at the actions of a few misguided people. Being Jews and supporters of Israel we are living in extremely difficult times. Israel is being bashed daily by Arabs, anti-Semites and many leftists. We read of these attacks all the time, the main line of these anti-Semitic attacks are Israel has a terrible human right record. Israel is no better than the Nazis. Israel evicts people. Israel is not a democracy, etc. etc.
    How painful is it to us now when our own flesh and blood are giving moral support to these ‘Israel bashers’. I realize their intentions are not for this purpose but this is irrelevant. In times like this we don’t have the luxury to put our heads in the sand and not be concerned of the consequences.
    The facts are that the organizers of this protest seem to belong to a fanatical religious splinter group. They must be stopped, to avoid an extremely dangerous and sad development.

    Steven Phillip Teitel
    Sth. Caulfield

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  6. Maybe if the members of the Melb rabbinate were less wishy-washy (as they were described in a recent letter in the AJN) then these orange people would listen to them. But when these rabbis mostly our own chabad mates are in this awful dilemma of knowing the rebbe's firm anti-disengagement position from one side and fear of their baaleibatim and jobs on the other - it giives no genuine guidance to the hoi-poloi. Rabbi Zaichyk wasn't acepted by all - but everyone knew that he says what he thinks and he thinks what he says. Lo Saguru bifnei ish. Please note this - Rabbis G and K

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  7. Shmuli, are you implying that Rabbis should only to be respected and heeded if they make a point of being hot-headed, contrary and contoversial? At least "Rabbis G and K" who you have targetted have spoken out! And what makes you so sure that these rabbis aren't also saying what they really think and are intimidated by their baaleibattim - because they are not ranting and/or saying what YOU want them to say? (This accusation itself actually appears to be an attempt at the very same type of intimidation from baalei battim that you criticise.)

    Maybe if we all showed more respect and actually listened to our Rabbonim, rather than attacking them when they do speak out we would see more of them brave enough to publicly share their opinions. After all, we only get the leadership we deserve....

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  8. To Loyal Talmid. Iwould agree with you if these Rabbonim whould say something. But "PA LOHAM V'LO Y'DABERU" tHEY HAVE MOUTHS BUT DO NOT SPEAK. On which topic have we heard a word! The Cemetery Shtiebels Mechitza? The new mixed orthodox shule? The demonstration?
    Gambling at Chabad Central? In a letter to the Jewish news this week the President of Orthodox Rabbis writes about his view on the Mechitza but doesn't say what his view is.
    This 2 bob each way mentality makes it hard to listen to our Rabbis as they sit on the fence!

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  9. To Loyal Talmid. Iwould agree with you if these Rabbonim whould say something. But "PA LOHAM V'LO Y'DABERU" tHEY HAVE MOUTHS BUT DO NOT SPEAK. On which topic have we heard a word! The Cemetery Shtiebels Mechitza? The new mixed orthodox shule? The demonstration?
    Gambling at Chabad Central? In a letter to the Jewish news this week the President of Orthodox Rabbis writes about his view on the Mechitza but doesn't say what his view is.
    This 2 bob each way mentality makes it hard to listen to our Rabbis as they sit on the fence!

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  10. benshraga said:"To Loyal Talmid. Iwould agree with you if these Rabbonim whould say something."

    How can you say that when your very comment is part of a thread that is actually built on a lengthy and clear statement from one of those Rabbis! Or doesn't a statement count as saying anything if it contains comments that may be different to our own viewpoint?

    I say again - Maybe we have to share the blame. If we all showed a little more respect and actually listened to our Rabbonim we would thereby encourage them to speak out and we would then indeed see and hear more from them.

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  11. To loyal TALMID: I WOULD LOVE TO LISTEN TO THE Rabbonim but they remain silent. The letter to the Jewish News from our Shochet does not give a view. I am sorry! It is not different from my viewpoint as I do not have one but our Rabbis should show us the way! As the Mishna says "Ase lecho Rav"

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  12. According to Halacha these orange activists have a din of RODEF!

    Could our Rabbonim please tell us what is the Halacha of a RODEF?

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  13. zalman, you seem to be the posek here, stating uncategorically that they have a din of rodef, perhaps you tell us then what the din of rodef is, and then pray tell us your rabbinic qualifications that allow you to pass judgement on these people.

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  14. I was told anyone who puts other Jews into a life threatening Sakona (local terrorist attack etc.) has a Din of Rodef. I am not certain but thanks G-D we have a long list of Rabbis who will correct me if I am wrong. I am not a posek but wish if the poskim would already wake up!

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  15. The Rabbis live of the community. They shoulsn't they assist in protecting us from these Orange blokes.

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  16. The Rabbis will not protect us. Weiser and Leibler have gone as far as they can The rest is up to us. I heard over 95% of the local community are apposed to the orange demonstration!

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  17. Why not give credit where it is due. Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick came out against the demonstration!

    By the way over 3/4 of the community agree with Sharon. I do not but I also do not agree with the orange peoples demonstration.

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  18. Even if only 25% are against disengagement there would not be more than 10-15% of these who are happy with the orange demonstration. That means approx 3% of the community agree with the orange people. This should be publicized!

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  19. 1. There are 7000 settlers living in luxury in 35% of the Gaza Strip. These people are free to live in Israel if they wish, besides they will get plenty of perks as well.

    2. There are 1,150,000 Palestinians (most of whom are refugees) living in dire poverty with zero freedom of movement in the remaining 65%.

    3. According to the law the Jewish settlements are illegal - the only country in the entire world which considers them legal is Israel.

    4. Israel is a democracy where a clear majority of poeple want these settlers out of Gaza.

    5. The settlers in their sick, racist, hate-filled mind view are comparing themselves to the helpless victims of the Holocaust. They are an unpleasant joke and should be a deep embarrassment to Israel.

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  20. I was sympathetic to you until statement number 5. Although the other 4 points can be debated the last one is just plain racist. What a stupid, ill-informed statement. You are obviously another self-hating Jew.

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  21. I totally agree with Steven especially point 5!
    I realize our Orange people might have Israel’s best interests at heart. However they are very misguided, especially comparing the decision of a sovereign govt. to move and compensate 4,000 people with the murder of 6 million Jews is really quite grotesque and they should apologize to those who they continue to offend using words like DEPORTATION and NEVER AGAIN!

    We don’t like when our enemies minimize the Holocaust with fake comparisons, so THESE Orange People shouldn’t do so either.

    PS. If the settlers are being Deported can they take any belongings with them, as my Grandparents couldn’t when they were deported from Rumania to Auschwitz?

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  22. If Mushumad has a problem with point 5 of Stevens comments he apparently has no clue what the Nazis did. Learn your history and then find out how well the settlers are being treated. The 100s of Millions of Dollars they have cost Israel, and what Israel is spending on RELOCATING them after their disgusting behaviour. Most are decent people, and many trouble makers in Orange don't even live in Gaza (where their are 170 Arabs for every JEW)

    PS. My family will never give Yeshiva another cent after seeing a billboard advertising the demonstration. Rabbi Groner I thought you were above this.

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  23. The billboard was vandelised on Thursday night cleaned on Friday and is still up. This is a disgrace and a security risk!

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  24. You guys all sound like raving fanatics. I take offence that the term used was "The settlers in their sick, racist, hate-filled mind view". You have all fallen into the trap of believing the left wing media. You are also reacting completely emotionaly. Who said that the residents of Gush Katif are comparing themselves to victims of the holocaust? Just some lefty reporters and a guy called Steven.

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  25. Well i saw in Melbourne a sign with the word DEPORTATION on it today!
    Are you suggesting this billboard was placed by the lefty reporters.
    I read some of the Orange peoples collegues in Israel are putting their indentification numbers on their arms. Are you blaming the lefty reporters or Steven for this. What does the comment "never again" imply??

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  26. A fellow on the Official web site of the Gush Katif activists named JOEL BIRI wrote
    "This atrocity by sharon is the worst atrocity ever done to the Jewish people.
    Meshulam (or Meshumad?) who will you blame for this and worse sick statements coming from these orange people!

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  27. If Meshulam has a problem with point 5 of Stevens comment I have a feeling you might be a Nazi apologist?!
    tHE COMPARISION BETWEEN WHAT THE ELECTED GOVERNMENT IS DOING IN RELOCATING 4000 SETTLERS and what Hitler did is disgraceful and sick. And if Mushalem can't understand he is also sick.
    Meshulam if you defend Nazis don't call others racists!
    P.S. Are you aware that the poor deported settlers whose blood is being apparently spilt by Sharon are getting beautiful new housing plus money. What did Hitler give the Jews? You guys are pathetic.

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  28. Anonymous you are an idiot. Can't you read English? I never said anyhing about defending the Nazis. Get a life.

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  29. If my Granparents would read what these orange people are reffering to a Democratic Israeli Government to be similar to the Nazis they would turn in their graves.

    Why is Rabbi Groner backing an anti Israel demonstration.

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  30. Meshulam I have a life but you a wrong twice!!
    1) You attacked someone very rudely, because he takes offence for tactics that DO COMPARE THE ACTIONS OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO THE ACTIONS OF THE NAZIs. (if you can't see it look at Haaretz talkback and these local fanatics own litreture and web site)
    2) You try to blame lefty reporters for the actions of the Orange People. I have spoken personally to these fanatical activists. If you like contact Aaron, Saul, Shlomo and last but not least Joel!

    From the girl you call idiot!

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  31. We aqre the only orgaisation (besides the Russian Chabad house that is getting ready for Moshiach for 10 years)to publicize a demonstration on Melbourne streets by young fanatics against the Prime Minister of Israel.
    The facts are
    The Rebbe liked and respected Ariel Sharon.
    The Rebbe was ALWAYS agaist demonstrations.
    Gush Katif is unfortunately gone, what's the point to stir up havoc against Israel and to jepordise the security of Jews in Melbourne.
    Sharon has been advised that this stupid demonstration represents nobody except 1% of Melbourne Jewry who are young Bnei Akiva or Meshiachists!

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  32. some people just gotta have a cause. orange people just wanna have fun.

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  33. The Rebbe held Ariel Sharon in high regard and respect!

    From a letter written by the Rebbe in 1970 to Mr Ariel Sharon.

    ... you have been successful and will continue to be successful. This is in addition to the public benefit for the Jewish People - the Holy Nation, who dwell in Eretz Israel - the Holy Land; G-d has blessed you and made you successful in defending them with your aptitudes, your efforts and your energetic drive, etc......

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  34. Meshulam maybe either answer, or apologise for your poor manners!

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  35. Orange people do not apologize. They have guts.

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  36. So the billboards have been defaced again! I hope Groner realises that this demonstration is an embarrasment to the Yeshiva community!

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  37. The importance of the pullout is that it secures an unequivocal Jewish majority in a Jewish democracy, which is the most strategic threat to Israel's well-being. By separating from the Palestinians and dividing the land we are securing Israeli interests.

    For the last 25 years, the HARD-WORKING tax payer who lives within the borders of the State of Israel has footed the bill for settlers cosy villas at low cost, taxes exemptions, costly infrastructure, unrequired army protection that has cost too many soldier`s lives.All that in the name of a pseudo ideological revision of Zionism.
    Settlers of the terrirories did not settle land in order to create a Nation not even as a dependance of a Nation. There never was any desire to create a local economy in the territories that would include native populations
    Quite the contrary, they created fortified enclaves for the wealthy to parade in the midst of utter poverty and misery.
    Fertile ground for terrorism.
    And now we have again to foot the bill and the moral outrage of their removal from where any history student could have told they should never have been.
    Ideology in the world died together with the Berlin Wall. Ideas can be listened to, no one can guaranty that they have to be respected because they are someone`s opinion, especially when they are the minority in the State, and even a bigger minority here in Melbourne.

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  38. This right wing in Israel and there cronies here, baiting and prosituting of the Holocaust is appalling. It is a horrendous act of disrespect, an historic distortion and an obscene comparison.
    Rabin assassination began with these same relgio/nationalist zealots portraying him as a Nazi and now even worse for Ariel Sharon!
    This historical misuse of the term Deportation, its misapplication is bearing fruit and it portends a very dangerous and violent future for Israel. It has lost all connexion to reality or rationality.
    These groups prostituting the term and memory of the Holocaust for their own venal purposes such be tried for hate speech. It is no less so than the propaganda spewed out by the Kahanists.

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  39. The fact is that the Israeli government encouraged people to move to West Bank cities in the 1980's by offering tax concessions etc. A number of residents of the West Bank and Gaza are not religious. Now that it suits the politicians they are calling these people "settlers" and implying that they are squatters and right wing fanatics.
    Some of the comments make it sound as if these people - who are also Israeil citizens and serve in the army - are purposely a drain on Israel's economy.

    When the Palestinians demand Tel Aviv what will you say then?

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  40. I believe we must trust the leaders of Israel when they decide that it is a long term danger to alow a situation where the majority of people living in Israel will not be Jewish. Another issue is can Israel continue to afford the huge expense of defending these settlements. Are you aware that nearly 50% of Jews living in Gaza are happy to be relocated. This relocation will cost the Israeli economy over 10 Billion shekel.

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  41. To confused! Please don't confuse me.
    The reason that both major political parties have decided to pull out of Gaza has nothing to do with the demands of Palestinians!
    It has to do with International relations, Cost of Defending settlements, Army being bogged down in Gaza, Allowing an Arab majority in the state of Israel etc.
    Ariel Sharon has good credentials. He cares about every inch of Israel more than we all do. To think that he will give Tel Aviv to the Palestinians demonstrates that you lack an understanding of the issues and facts.

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  42. Enough is correct!

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  43. Isit true that the Orange people are jamming the phone systems of the Israeli consulate and embassy?

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  44. zalman, it is true and the aussie echo says above he received an email asking others to do the same.

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  45. So most of us were right about these fanatical extremists! Now Caulfield Shule has kicked them out! They should be deported to Gaza and left there!

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  46. In the ten Sefirot, Hod was always shown as orange, on the side of Gevura, which is red. Chessed is blue but weak, gives in, the Yes man. Gevura is red like blood, like war, too harsh. Teferes is of course perfect. But there are times to be strict. A child will be a spoilt brat, if you don't use dicipline sometimes. So now is time for Hod, orange. Orange means determination and courage (see www.inner.org) Especially this week's Parsha of Pinchos - sets an example of guts - to stand up for principles! Come on you conformist "white underwear people" White is for surrender !

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  47. now with death threats it's time to stop the dictatorship here at hotham street, before we worry about sharon!

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  48. Watching Chaim Tzvi Groner at 7pm with a few dozen kids at Ohel Devora made me feel sorry for him. I believe there were no more than 80 people over the age of 20, and no less across the road at the pro disengagement protest!

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  49. What an absolue waste of time, effort and money! Only and idiot would think that this micro-mini Moomba parade will have even the slightest effect on sharon and his govt.
    They looked like a bunch of road workers wearing there bright orange saftery jackets and kids trying to make themselves look important.

    I live on Balaclava Rd and watched thi spathetic bunch made up it seemed of our YCBR kids - not th emost chassidish behaving and then saw 2 young Adass-uniformed girls in their tzenius clothing and dark stockings pushing a baby in a stroller, chatting happily and wondering what this fuss was about.

    I sincerely wish that my daughters would have that beautiful old-fashioned Yidddish/Chassidish style and manner which every Yiddishe Mama would be proud of.

    Mi Yiten Vehaya,,,

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  50. If we want our daughters to look like Bnos Yisroel and give the Rebbe Nachas first the girls must be taught to have confidence in themselves, not to feel that they are lacking and need to prove themselves. If we do not they will continue to feel they are insuperior and will feel they need to prove themselves, so they always follow the latest trends, fashion and what is suddenly cool! Why should we feel we need to run after every warped pathetic shmutziger fashion designer in europe. Are these weirdo designers going to tell us each season what has become beautiful now. Let's let the frum girls of Adass inspire us that we know what beautiful is and definetly not what the Goyim suddenly call beautiful for this season!

    Proud daughters of Israel you will bring Moshiach!

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  51. Well said miri w. and 770!!!

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  52. Rabbi Oliver was right!
    Rabbis Groner and Gutnick were there last night. A friend of mine saw them. He is a Meshiachist. They were sitting in the front row, either side of the Rebbe.

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  53. So that was the Rebbe in middle of them! Why didn't anyone tell me. I didn't recogbise him!

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  54. yechi--he's changed, from all the sorrow caused by so many of his Chassidim who have gone against his teachngs. Nebach!

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  55. Well if the Rebbe was there how san people say he was against the protest?

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  56. Which Rebbe ?

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  57. Some smart fellow who thinks he is funny said that Rabbis Groner and Gutnick were seen next to the Rebbe by a Meshiachist! As none of them were there.
    I don't get the joke.

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  58. rABBI gRONER CAME TO wERDIGER hALL FOR A FEW MINUTES!

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  59. Why only for a few minutes. I thought this is PIKUACH NEFESH according to the Rebbe, and we all need to do whatever we possibly can???

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  60. Maybe Rabbi Groner doesn't think that the Rebbe wants us to be involved in demonstration. Maybe we should follow the Jewish way as Sydney are doing!

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  61. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  62. According to many sites including Women in Green the only protests outside Israel was one in New York with over 1,000 people (mainly chabad children), one in Colorado with 60 Christians and one in Melbourne with 1,000 people. But I read on this site that there were only 600 (mainly children). So Melbourne is up there!

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  63. Where are all the other marches that the orange people claimed? I have3n't seen any reports. My daughter living in London says no protest, no march, no rally in London. Was this just another of the lies we have become accustomed to?

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  64. Tere were no other marches or Demonstrations. Only Melbourne and one about 10% bigger in New York.

    We've been fooled again!!

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  65. shlompy, if you care so much abut all this then make aliyah!

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  66. Shlompy those postings that you get people like aaron and joel to write for you are much better as your spelling is as accurate as your facts, but we will leave that for later as facts have never got in the way of a fanatic! Nor have the Rebbes wishes.

    PS. Deportation means an undesirable. These are not undesirables (although the way a small group of them are behaving they might become) They are NOT being expelled from Israel, only from GAZA.

    ps An international expert on Israeli affairs should maybe learn how to spell I-S-R-A-E-L !

    THE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS DESERVE BETTER THAN CALL THIS DEPORTATION. NOW I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS NOT DEPORTATION. I wish when my father was deported to Auschwitz he would of had the conditions offered to the settlers to relocate!

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  67. shlompy, Your grasp of the English language and your deep and profound understanding of complex issues facing the Jewish world today serve as a inspiring role model for all.

    You must be another proud product of Yeshiavh College, no doubt.

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  68. It was meant to be funny. Don't you have a sense of humor?

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