It seems that the frum community, which usually gets all excited about events in Israel, is ignoring this issue. Some people tell me that there is a question of whether Gaza is actually a part of "greater Israel". Others say that it will appease the arabs (fat chance!). Still others seem to be embarrassed to be seen opposing PM Sharon since he has always been the darling of the political right.
To me there is a basic problem of ejecting people from their homes and businesses. Period.
These are the events. It is good that two of them involve the general Jewish community rather than the frum community only.
1) Kiddush and farbrengen this Shabbos as Kimberley (441 Inkerman Street) with Mr Michael Kleiner (Chariman of the Herut Party in Israel) and Rabbi Joseph Gutnick at 12 noon after davening
2) Mr Kleiner will be speaking at Beth Weizman Sunday 3rd July 8pm
3) Brigadier General Ruth Yaron (Official IDF Spokesperson) will be speaking at State Zionist Council meeting Beth Weizman Tuesday July 12th 8pm
For more information go to the Australian Friends of Gush Katif and Shomron website www.gushkatif.com.au
2) Mr Kleiner will be speaking at Beth Weizman Sunday 3rd July 8pm
3) Brigadier General Ruth Yaron (Official IDF Spokesperson) will be speaking at State Zionist Council meeting Beth Weizman Tuesday July 12th 8pm
For more information go to the Australian Friends of Gush Katif and Shomron website www.gushkatif.com.au
Has anyone bothered to find out of the people of Gush Katif are arming themselves and preparing to shoot at IDF? If so, would it be wise to give them unequivocal support? The evacuation is a stupid move, but civil war is not the answer. I do not want to see innocent GK residents nor innocent Israeli soldiers hurt or killed (G-d forbid). If GK residents get violent they will lose most of their support, and rightly so, in the Jewish velt. Say no to evacuation, but say NO also to civil war between Jews!
ReplyDeleteI am torn up inside about all this stuff. Here in Melbourne there are some people who have gone a bit fanatical and want to paint everything orange and scream and yell in the streets to stop the disengagement. What good will that do? I do not feel comfortable demonizing Sharon, after all he is a Jew. i do not feel comfortable seeing the IDF soldiers as the enemy while they are Jews and defenders of the land.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing we can do from here in Melbourne is daven and show ahavas yisroel.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Groner is not supporting the demonstrations and I do not think any toher Chabad rabbis have officially endorsed it either.
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe says not to get involved with politcal demonstrations. The Rebbe says instead we should learn more Torah and do more mitzvas and daven. This is what the Rebbe wants us to do to bring shalom to the Yidden-and also the conduct Hafatzos Hamayonos--spreading the wellsprings of Chassidus to bring Mashiach.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comments. Do these naive people think they will achieve ANYTHING with this Orange meshugaas?
ReplyDeleteThat is beside the fact that the infanous 'Orange people' cult were an international sect of dangerous and sick perverts
And may I ask, what has the rebbe's special emissiary [shliach meyuchad - as he calls it] Yossel Gutnick been doing? Hosting another israeli politician, who put Sharon in as PM?
ReplyDeleteWWTRS???
[What would the rebbe say?]
1. When thugs come to attack someone and throw him out of his home, he has the natural right to defend himself. It doesn't matter whether he is black, or Jewish, or Arab. So long as he is living on his own property, and not aggressing against anybody, a man's home is his castle.
ReplyDelete2. A government has the right to compulsorily purchase someone's property (at fair market value) if it needs the property for some public use that can't be done anywhere else (melech poretz geder laasot lo derech). A government does not have this right if it has no need for the property, and has no plans to do anything with it, but rather to give it to someone else. That's why there's so much outrage at the USA Supreme Court's decision in Kelo v New London
3. Demos in Melbourne won't stop the expulsion. The only purpose can be to arouse public sympathy, which might translate into pressure from the general community on the Israeli government. Except that Sharon doesn't care what anyone thinks, he never has.
4. The reason Zionists have a problem with this whole situation is that they are working from a premise that the State of Israel is special, that it's different than any other government. This especially applies to Religious Zionists, for whom the State is reshit tzemichat geulatenu and has the status of a melech Yisrael, the Knesset has almost the status of a Sanhedrin. If any other government in the world would propose such a thing, the entire Jewish nation would be up in arms, as would all non-Jews who have sympathy for Jewish rights; but because it's Medinat Yisrael, they can't see it in the same way, and they have trouble bringing themselves to protest.
5. Once one understands that Sharon is no different than the Czar, the whole situation looks different. This isn't about kedushat ha'aretz, and it makes no difference whether Gush Katif is in 'greater Israel', or 'smaller Israel', whether it's in kedusha rishona or kedusha sheniya, whether shemita applies there or not; it's an area where Jews found unoccupied land, claimed it, and built homes, and sought to live without bothering their neighbours in any way, but those neighbours began attacking them, and the government which exists to protect them is instead proposing to expel them from their homes. It's no different whether it takes place in Gaza or in Russia or in Australia.
6. The Lubavitcher Rebbe was against public demos against the USSR. I am not aware of his ever having commented on demos against Israel. The reason he gave for opposing demos against the USSR was that every time there was a demo, the government retaliated against the Jews, vehatzel lo hitzalta et amecha - nothing positive was achieved. Others, with access to much the same information, saw things differently. The whole analysis doesn't really apply to the current situation. I don't see how demos in Melbourne can really help, but I'm even more certain that they can't hurt the situation in Israel (how they affect community relations in Melbourne is another matter).
To millhouse:
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe never encouraged demos in regards to Eretz Yisroel. He never encouraged or directed his Chassidim in general to get politically involved. His opinons regarding the politics of the HOLY LAND were directed to those with Rabbinic and political influence. He urged people like Yosel to give money to the right wing parties, but never gave his Chassidim in general a directive to march or become political activists.
There is a signifcant difference between Sharon and the Tzar--SHARON IS A YID!!! And all the people who will carry out this expulsion are Yidden!!! We cannot make them into our enemies, we are all Jews. Do you believe that an innocent 18 year old Jewish soldier should be shot by a Jewish settler for following orders? Do you want to see bloodshed between Yidden? Although the expulsion is wrong, those hotheads who are willing to commit acts of violence in order to stop it are also wrong.
Rabbonim in Chabad around the world have said that the Rebbe was gainst Chabdniks engaging in political demos. The Rebbe said they were ineffective and could even make things worse. Our actions should be spiritually focused, not politically. Our job is to mekarev other Yidden and the moment we become poltically aligned, or we become seen as a political party or as activists for a certain politcial line, we put up stumbling blocks keeping us from building bridges with and communicating with Jews on the left. If they see us as 'right wingers' or 'extremists' they will not want to work with us and they may then lose out on an oppportunity to grow as Jews and to learn about Torah and mitzvahs. The Rebbe wanted us to be the frum Jews with the friendly face to all other Jews. Only through tolerance and chesed are we succesful in bringing Jews closer and this is the method used by Chabad that has proven to be phenomenally successuful for decades. Our actions to end the horrible Oslo process should be spiritual ones for by increasing in Torah and by increasing in hafotzas hamayonas (spreading the wellsrpings) throughout the world we bring the geulah closer. Only with Moshiach will we have true peace in EY.
ReplyDeleteNews reprots say the Israeli givernment is ending 41,000 tropps to evacuate 9,000 residents from the Gush. If so, only a NESS GADOL can stop the IDF from carrying out this terrible evacuation.
ReplyDeleteI hear people comparing this to protesting against the Nazis. Have these people forgotten that these are Jews we are talking about? The most horrible prospect to me is watching Jew against Jew and seeing our bothers spill each others blood. AD MOSAI!
Oh, let's see if I get this. Hundreds of Jews will be out in the street in Caulfield for a good time attracted by music, food, etc, and then go listen to a hook up of speeches from Israel. The next day Sharon will read about this and have a change of heart, won't he?
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe like Arik as he has huge zechusim for saving Jews. His current policy is the best for Israel according to his expert opinion. We have a right to disagree but not to attack the leader of Eretz Yisroel for seeing things different then some of us might.
ReplyDeleteOrange or marching is not a Chassidish thing.
To L'chayim:I agree with your point about Yerushalyim. How do they know that after this evacuation then G-d forbid Yerushalayim? Are they prophets? Where is their bitachon?
ReplyDeleteThese organizers of this local demo are silly hotheads and they have a very shallow understandig of the issues involved. Things are not so black and white. Sharon was a great war hero who militarily saved Israel in '73. Many of the Jews who agree with his policies are well misguided but well meaning. These local activists who are running this demo are on a power trip, think they have all the answers, and cannot be reasoned with. They are not considering all the nuances and angles of this very complex issue. And they are encouraging mass hysteria and not intelligent discourse.
And I agree that the demo is not only Chassidishe, but spiritually damaging.
TYPO Correction--I meant to write the demo 'is not only NOT Chassidshe, but potentially spiritually damaging"
ReplyDeleteGush Katif is gone! And I am not giving up Yerushalayim nor will Sharon, so just relax. It is NOT save Gush Katif or loose Yerushalayim at all. These orange people have no clue whats going on. It is more complex than music, marching and orange!!
ReplyDeleteThe Expulsion of Jews from Gaza is a dangerous act on several counts.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, it is a racist precedent. Israeli citizens who are Jewish are being forced out. Israeli citizens who are Muslim are allowed to remain. This is racist by any definition.
Someday, Arabs will be removed by the same reasoning. Legally.
Secondly, this plan is being used to unfairly paint Israeli political and idological opponents as violent and dangerous. The Loony Left together with the Shabak have tried a long list of 'blood libel' accusations, including phony Piskei Halacha that allegedly permit shooting soldiers, traffic hazards planted by the Shabak outside Kfar Chabad to make the Chabadniks look dangerous and allow their arrest on imaginary charges, and the planting of provocateur agents. (Several such agents have been caught and photographed. At a rally last week, one of these phony kippa wearers was invited to join a minyan for Shachris - just before sunset. He agreed. This guy was a Shabak plant!)
Thirdly, it is a terrible perversion of democracy. The legislative manouvering to permit the Expulsion is itself very clumsy amd probably anti-democratic. The legitimacy of the entire plan is doubtful.
The State is now pursuing it's own citizens, arresting HUNDREDS, including several hundred children, many of whom have already spent over a month in prison without trial. Some people are being arrested because of alleged crimes that they MIGHT commit someday - and are being given indefinite sentences! The cell keys are being thrown away. This is unheard of in ANY democracy!
Israel is endorsing a Leninist KGB internal policy that will take decades to overcome.
Fourthly, the plan is making thousands of perfectly innocent citizens into refugees in their own land. If anyone thinks that Israel can build a thousand decent homes in the next 4 weeks, they are out of their mind. The problems in the details are enormous - and Leftist Minister of Interior Ofer Piness is attacking the Gaza refugees on all fronts, trying to make life harder for them.
Finally, the "Disengagement" plan will simply not achieve anything. The so-called "Palestineans" are incapable of creating an economy with jobs to keep themselves fed and the Israelis cannot manage without the labor force that the "Palestineans" provide. After the "Disengagement", the two sides will be just as intertwined as before.
Sharon will have achieved nothing - and at terrible, terrible cost.
Jake - in Jerusalem
I suppose all this just proves that the late Satamar Rebbe was 100% right in his views about zionists an zionism
ReplyDeleteIn fact the late Rabbi Chaim Gutnick used to say that the rebbe often said that had not the Satmar rebbe battled the zionists, he would have had to do so.
Not bad to see the Satmar guys together with the orange activists marching together down Inkerman street. All we still need are the 'Jews for Palestine' Group and then Moshiach will truly come!
ReplyDeleteWho is this Joel Biri activist. Anyone who has a different opinion to him he character assasinates. He's a real shocker. Maybe a little tolerance and Ahavat Yisrael will go along way for the protesters cause.
ReplyDeleteMy experience with some of these activists running this event is that they are dogmatic, overzealous, and incapable of engaging in critical analysis. Ask them some honest and challenging questions re what they are doing and why, or about the complex isses at hand, and their reaction is overly emotional, defensive and hostile. That is the perennial problem of fanatics, be they on the right or the left, be they Jews for J or Zionists. No matter what the cause they all have the same mindless self righteous fervor, that same 'holier than thou" attitude. The guys running this thing (Moshe Elkman is the top dog who started it) think they know everything and will not listen to reason. They are on a holy crusade, and their cause is more important than any other considerations, including Torah or Chassidus. The thing that scares me when people behave like them is that the cause becomes the most important overriding factor and the end justifies the means. They are not different than communists in this regard---they consider themselves to be working towards a higher immutable goal, and even if it means people may get hurt in the process, or even if it means in this case they may break halachas, none of that matters. I tried to ask them about the possibility of supporting acts of civil war between Jews and all the implications of doing so. It fell on deaf self righteous ears. Ego, power trips, the need to control others--all these characterise this type of activist psyche. They are the self-annointed chosen ones who are going to save the rest of us--no matter what!
ReplyDeletePerspective you are being extremely unfair. While I do not agree 100% with what the orange people are doing they are quite sincere in their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that anyone who knows Moshe could accuse him of not being honest and committed to the cause.
Fiar go--Yo missed my point. Read my comment again. Even well meaning honest people can become dogmatic, fanatical, and unable to listen to reason.
ReplyDeleteHey "Fair Go","Perspective" is correct--wasn't Trotsky also sincere? How about the Frankists or the Pharisees? They were sincere too. What does sincerity have to do with it? "Perspective" was commenting only on the irrationality of dogmatic activists of all stripes.
ReplyDeleteLchayim, I also dread these activists approaching the media and making inappropriate damaging statements. In my view not one of them are competent enough to talk to the media on the behalf of our community and they are in way over their heads. They are dealing with complex important controversial issues in a simplistic irresponsible manner without considering all the implications of their actions. And the media may have a field day with them by making them look like weird extremists and by making us look very divided. Why do these shallow hothead types always seem to grab all the attention giving them a chance to make a Chilul Hashem? And where are our community leaders to stop them?
ReplyDeleteIf you want to see who three of the organizers of the demo are then look at page 14 of this week's Jewish News and there is a photo of Saul Rothman, Joel Beirenkrant and Aron Adelist.
ReplyDeleteHolocaust survivors are getting very upset with you using the word DEPORTATION. Jews were deported by Nazis in Europe and sent to Gas chambers.
ReplyDeleteDeportation means "to expell from one owns country" These setllers are getting new dwellings so please don't compare this to what the Nazis did. The Nazis don't deserve your efforts (even if your motives are for other reasons) to make them look the same as the Israeli Government.
Comparisons to the evacuation of GK and the Nazi beasts is not only felacious but it is STUPID!! These are Jews we are talking about, not goyishe anti-Semitic killers.
ReplyDeleteI looked at the photo in the AJN and doesn't Joel Bierenkrant look no older than 19? What would he know? How could he be a community spokesman of any kind? What a joke!
Someone is using and manipulating these young people, the older ones in charge are shamelessly using these young people as pawns for their own games.
The Rebbe made it clear we can make our opinons heard but it must be done in a rational and menchlik way.
Chums: Joel is not the only one with an attitude problem out of that group. Unfortunately, as stated before, they are in over their heads trying to fit into shoes that are too big for them.
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ReplyDeleteI deleted the last 3 comments because they were loshon hora. Please try to refrain from negative comments about individuals.
ReplyDeleteSomeone sent me an email going around wirtten by one of the demo organizers and it is filled with dirty words. Figures jerks like this are running the show.
ReplyDeleteJas power--your mindless hate filled rant exposes you. Remember, jew does not hate another Jew,period.
ReplyDeleteI am cvoncerned about the tone of the JAS POWER comment.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know what or who is JAS power??
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ReplyDeleteDon't these Orange people realize that, especially in light of the London bombing, that we Jews need to show achdus to the outside world?
ReplyDeleteThis is NOT the time to display our internal division to the goyim of the diaspora country we live in. The Australian Arabs and anti-Semitic local press will eat this up and shed it in the worst possible light. But the ignorant short sighted hotheaded organizers will not listen to reason.
Do we neet to stay silent and let 3 hotheads hijack the community. Why should Israel and the local Jewish population be at risk due to this trio.
ReplyDeleteWhere are our leaders??
What leaders? The Rabbonim have no backbones, they are all scared of their own shadows, scared of losing money, prestige,scared of taking a stand, scared of speaking the truth. Wimps, one and all!!!
ReplyDeleteThe Rabbi who will one day, G-d willing, find the nettle to actually lead will get the respect of everyone, even those who do not agree with his stand, because he will show all that he is worthy of his title.
JAS Power says '4 days to D day". What does that mean? Do these characters really believe that thier demo will stop the Israeli government from going ahead with the evacuation? Are they mentally challenged or just naive kids?
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ReplyDeleteWhat does JAS Power mean when they write to their critics 'you will have the same end Sharon will"? Is this not a threat? Should the authorites be notified?
ReplyDeleteI live on Inkerman street. I am scared for my family and will not be home Tuesaday evening. 2 of these problem kids A & J apparently attend Yeshiva and Yavneh. Can't the schools control their pupils.
ReplyDeleteAll authorities must be notified and the JCCV should inform all media outlets that Jews are united and these orange people are a loony fringe group that have the backing of only themselves!
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ReplyDeleteThanks! The kids are now releaved. They have more intellegence!
ReplyDeleteThere maybe hundreds reading this. If you care about this issue, get on the phone and complain loudly to our community leaders about these nutcase orange freaks. No one has to know who you are. Urge the people with influence to read this blog and to talk to the orange organizers NOW!
ReplyDeleteI deleted the comment from "ad mosa" which was supposed to be a copy of an email from Rabbi Mottel Gutnick. If someone can email me, or get Rabbi Gutnick to email me, at aussieecho@gmail.com and prove that it is really from him I will publish it.
ReplyDeleteIs anonymity assured to the one sending you the email?
ReplyDeleteAussie Echo,why don't you ask Rabbi Gutnick yourself?
ReplyDeleteIt's true. The local community has no real leadership. In the days of RabbiChaim Gutnick, he could speak strongly and clearly as president of the Rabbinical Council. He defended Torah and menchlichkeit. Today's crop of young rabbinical wannabes havent got a clue. And they are the LAST to speak for Yiddishkeit. Remember the Shirah Chadasha controvery? One attendee of a meeting where this was dicussed told me that if not for Rabbi Dovid Rubinfeld and one other rabbi there, the RCV would have weasled their way out of even that weak-weak condemnation. Reading the AJN the past few weeks it seems that they have got the guts to support the Chevra kadisha in their efforts to strengthen halachik requirements. How can we expect such weaklings to come out against the orange biryonim? Maybe the new rabbi of Mizrachi - who I am told is a pretty tough guy, will knock a few heads together
ReplyDeleteAussie echo I have read a few comments earlier on that you deleted. I agree with you, but just a sugestion! Maybe just delete the offending portion (eg nasmes) as some comment belore it is deleted and for the others some comments then don't make sence!
ReplyDeleteThanks for your community service and keep up your good work. On this issue which could have possible dabgerous consequences I think your forum has highlighted points no one would know other wise.
SHALOM
IDEA:
ReplyDeleteSome SANE normal Jews should be prepared to stand outside on the night of July 19 to meet the press and give normal moderate statements so they don't paint us ALL nas orange freaks.
Another IDEA: Some NORMAL people from the JCCV should pre-empt all this with press releases making it clear that these orange people are marginal.
One MORE Idea:
The rest of us should keep ourselves and our families far away from the demo.
In chutz l'aretz--A JEW DOES NOT DEMONSTRATE AGAINST ANOTHER JEW!!!
ReplyDeleteHow's that for a slogan?
To Anonymous and anyone else interested:
ReplyDeleteDue to the restrictions of the blogspot software I can only delete the complete comment not just part of it. If we all try to refrain from loshon hora - at least about specific individuals - there will be no need for me to delete anything.
Just a reminder. I would appreciate it if, rather than signing comments as "Anonymous", please enter a name - it does't matter if it is an "alias" as long as it is not anonymous.
Good Shabbos.
This Shabbos check if J. A. or S. are wearing orange socks!
ReplyDeleteFor heaven sake don't argue with them. Tell them you agree with them unless you want to hear a few sharp swear words!
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ReplyDeleteI just read some good news from Israel!!
ReplyDeleteIf all activists marching on Tuesday only wear underwear and nothing else SHARON WILL SCRAP HIS WHOLE PLAN TO EVACUATE GAZA. Natuarly all underwear must be orange!
This is a great achievment.
If we put Orange muzzles over the mouths of the young activists we would all be better of. God forbid if we have anti Sharon signs on the street. Comparing Israel to Nazis is playing into the hands of the Zionist bashers.
ReplyDeletei would like to know why it is necesarry for people to have "SINAT CHINOM". I think we should all work HARDER to create "AHAVAT YISROEL" and unite all jewish people around the world.
ReplyDeleteAt least for a start let's respect the leadership of Israel in public and not show the goyim that we are divided. In Israel everyone can say what they like but between the goyim I agree it is totally different.
ReplyDeleteSharon is not a Nazi or a traitor. This is not a way for a Jew to talk about another jew who has done so much for Israel.
eretz yisrael, I couldn't agree more. Sharon was a great war hero who bled on the battle fields many times over. And what have these Melb orange shmendriks done compared to him and compared to the people living there? Nothing but make noise.
ReplyDeleteThese activists don't support Israel, they only support themselves!
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that the only comunual leader who has the gutts to come out publicly in writing, against these Israel Basher Orange People is Rabbi Mottel Gutnick!
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ReplyDeleteMost of our Rabbis only speak out when it personally effects them!
ReplyDeleteHaving a Mechitzah in the Chevra Kaddisha Shtiebel is one good example. We are eating from the shechita from the Rabbi who agreed with the Reform Rabbi that the Mechitzah should be critisized!!
ber, and this is the same Rabbi/shochet who admitted he says YECHI after the brucha and before the cutting of the animal-would that meat then be kosher? Is he allowed to stick in another 'line' be it YECHI or anything else between the brucha and the actual slicing of the animal's neck? I think this is a real shiloh on the ksahsrus level of this shochet's meat.
ReplyDeleteThe ktav sofer in Pressburg forbade the shechita of a certain shochet as he changed the order of tying his shoelaces to what the shulchan orach says. I imagine to change the way a brocha is made is worse. But a bigger problem could be that adding anything after a brocha is a 'hefsek'. It doesn't show too much for the inteligense of the president of the council of Rabbis if he needs to say Yechi to the poor animal.
ReplyDeleteThis shochet is on a leash to Wroby and Burd, the non frum owners of Solomons! If wroby says jump he asks how high.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I only bought until now meat from Cedva/solomons I think I will move to Continental. Moishe Hanowitz seems a far more responsible and serious shochet!
ReplyDeleteI bur fom Melbourne Kosher. Yankel is the only shomer shabbos kosher butcher in Melbourne. The Shulchan Orach states that you must support a shomer shabbos shop wherever possible. His meat is good and he is a chassidishe yid, but most importantly he is a mentch with a large frum family.
ReplyDeleteIn the early years all of Lubavitch only ate from the Adass Shechita. That was before Chabad became holier than the holiest!
I have read that years ago many people were makpid not to purchase meat froma katziv (butcher) who was not religious, irrelevant how good the Hechsher was.
ReplyDeleteWe have militant young fanatics organising an anti Israel demonstration for Tuesday and some have nothing better to write about but which meat to buy. Every Jew in Melbourne will be in Danger due to these zealots.
ReplyDeleteWe must all defend the wishes of the Rebbe THAT A JEW DOES NOT PROTEST AGAINST ANOTHER JEW!
Can any one confirm if this is correct. Rabbis Motel and Yossel are against the demonstration, but Rabbi Chaim Zvi Groner is backing it.
ReplyDeleteThis would suprise me knowing the view of the Rebbi!
There is a strong statement from Rabbi Mordechai (Motel) Gutnick attacking the demonstration.
ReplyDeleteRegarding R'Ch.Tz.G. NO COMMENT!
R'ch Tz. G. announced the demo at the Gimel Tamuz gathering motzei Shabbos. What does that tell you about his position?He is also fanatically YECHI orientated. The two fanatcisims seem to often coincide.
ReplyDeleteHow are we going to stop the demo? This is a serious question. Anyone have any ideas?
ReplyDeleteI jknow several poore chabad families who get their meat from Yankel at Melb Kosher either free o almost free.
ReplyDeleteHe is a good man who helps all the community and does a lot of chesed behind the scenes. We should support him with all our might [and that is besides the fact that the quality and feshness of his products are 2nd to none]
I am quite happy to "lower' my kashrut standards from Chaim Zvi Groners supervison - to that of Rav Beck truly a tzadik of a man - which we Lubavitchers know very little about. But I hear much from my adass neighbours. In future I plan to take my sons to him for a bracha and upsherenish.
Back to the meat issue , we should support a good Jew who helps families in OUR community. (I have never heard of Solomons caring too much about our poor)
Are the people of Gush Katif planning on using violence? Has anyone found out if this is the case?
ReplyDeleteIf the people of Gush Katif are willing to go so far as to shoot soldiers, are you willing to support them in that?
I believe there is a real possibility the people of Gush Katif are armed and ready to do battle with the IDF. And if this is the case, I cannot support them.
I am against the evacuation but, I am also not going to support the Gush Katif residents’ posssible violent acts against fellow Jews.
I will have nothing to do with the shedding of blood between Jews. This is not the Torah way.
Shoshanna Silcove
When you have a 16 year old fruitcake as from of the organizers, what can you expect. After trying extremely hard for 3 weeks to get endorsment from Rabbis and comunual leaders they have not been able to find even one person to endorse this demonstration. Doesn't this speak for itself. Why are they starting at 5pm spending 2 dangerous hours on the street and then 5 hours in the werdiger hall until the hook-up begins. Weird evening?
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ReplyDeleteThe Red Planet is about to be spectacular!
ReplyDeleteThis month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that
will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in
recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is
in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on
Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be
certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth
in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as
60,000 years before it happens again.
The encounter will culminate on August 27th when
Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and
will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in
the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9
and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest
75-power magnification
shoshana what does the rebbe say about mars?
oh i get it the colour of mars is orange.
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ReplyDeleteI don't know what the Rebbe says about Mars but I do know the Rebbe spoke about the solar system. He spoke about how the earth does not revolve around the sun but, that Torah teaches that all planets in the solar system revolve around the earth. He also said their is no intelligent extraterrestrial lkife in the universe.Sorry to dissapoint all you UFO believers.
ReplyDeleteshoshana what can you tell us about UFO'S coming to support gush katif?
ReplyDeleteThe fact is the Rebbe was against these irresponsible protests!
ReplyDeleteNOT TRUE.
ReplyDeleteTHE REBBE SAID WE SHOULD PROTEST BUT NOT IN A VIOLANT WAY
YOUR THE ONLY PERSON THAT MENTIONED VIOLENCE
ITS SUPPORT THE YIDDEN
AND IF YOU CARE ABOUT THE RESIDENTS IN GUSH KATIF THEN YOU WILL BE AT THE PROTEST
IF NOT THE MELBOURNE COMMUNITY DOESNT WANT TO HEAR YOUR NEGATIVE COMMENTS
My poor Grandmother is shaking from anger when we allow the Israeli Government to be accused of DEPORTATION! If any other religion whould advertise such shameful statements all our leaders would be protesting all over the media. But this Orange maniacs can do what they like!
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry the Rebbe was always against protests. In fact he was against normal people getting involved in political issues. He stated that only our leaders should get involved. When Begin gave back sinai and Yamit the Rebbe clearly stated NOT TO PROTEST. See statement from Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Chillul Hashem, Security issues and having Boys and Girls together. What would the Rebbe say?
ReplyDeleteall these problems have been taken care of
ReplyDeleteyou just make sure you do not turn up to the rally, or we will have to put an orange muzzle on you and tie your orange undewear to some orange bungee rope hanging from the werdiger hall!
Smoke Chicken if it wouldn't be so serious you could make fun of it all!
ReplyDeleteBut if chollila some Muslim fanatic retaliate it will not be so funny. Remember we are not the only ones with millitant, fanatical extremists!
There are Muslims currently in Melbourne looking for Targets. They can thank the Orange people for helping them!
ReplyDeletemalka do you want to go first?
ReplyDeleteThe Sharon Government plans to deport close to 10,000 Jews from Gush Katif and Northern Shomron later this summer. Jewish lives are at risk both there as well as in Tel Aviv, Haifa, and other major population centers. Even PM Sharon's own newly appointed head of the Shin Bet Yuval Diskin paints a bleak picture of Israel's security situation after the expulsion. According to Diskin, "Northern Samaria and Gaza without the IDF means terror and the firing of missiles at Israeli targets all over the Land. It would leave the IDF without an effective method of fighting terror." Our brothers and sisters in Israel have pleaded for us to do something to prevent this crime against humanity and violation of G-d's commandment to the Jewish people. They are counting on us. We will not let them down.
ReplyDeleteNever Again to indifference.
Never Again to silence.
Deport, never again,silence what you anonymous coward is trying to do is compare Sharon and the elected Government of Israel to the Nazis. SHAME ON YOU!
ReplyDeleteRabbi Groner wouldn't let you use the word deport on your sign at Yeshiva but you 16 year olds are smarter than all our leaders. Not one has endorsed your foolish anti Israel demonstration. Rabbi Mordechai Gutnicks statement is public, he cares about Jews and Israel more than some young fanatics in orange!
Yanki spot on.
ReplyDeleteThese orange people should be deported.
If we don't stop these orange fanatics comparing Israel to the Nazis the damage they will cause all of us as well as to Israel will be enormous. As the saying goes our enemies will be from within.
ReplyDeleteMelbourne has a small Jewish community and we leave between non Jews. Most are not very sympathetic towards Israel and claim Israel stole Palestinian land. We know this is not correct but are in Galut. What impact will this protest have how our non jewish neighbours view Israel and us.
ReplyDeleteI haven't been able to find any similar 'anti deportation' marches in New York, London, Sydney etc. etc.
ASIO claim there are potential terrirists here. Why invite them with this stupid anti Israel demonstration and its publicity.
ReplyDeleteWe all know they read the Jewish News and visit this area. On one hand the community spends millions on security - then this??
Doesn't make sense to me.
The idea of this rally is to coincide with rallys all over the world on July 19.
ReplyDeleteAccording to my info there will be rallys and demonstrations in New York, London, Paris, Melbourne, Sao Paulo, Montreal, Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Toronto, San Diego and more places.
Although the sign at Yeshiva was modified why allow it at all expecially when the Rebbe was always against demonstrations. When Yamit was returned the Rebbe forbade demonstrations.
ReplyDeleteIsn't this the normal Yeshiva mentality 'to sit on the fence' with 2 bob each way!
I have spoken to 3 of those cities and searched the web. How reliable is your info. I hope more reliable than Sharon is as bad as a Nazi, This is the worst atrocity in History, From less than 8,000 people over half are happy to leave. They only went to live their as they got financial incentives! Most Orange people live in the cities and are just fanatical militants!
ReplyDeleteIf there is a protest in Paris I will eat my hat. They know what anti semitism is all about.
ReplyDeleteLet's see how many people over 25 years old will be at this irresponsible anti Israel demonstration!
How come absolutely no one has endorsed your NEVER AGAIN - ANTI DEPORTION march.
PS. Doesn't never again mean -It was enough in Germany! please correct me if I am wrong. Unfortunately I fear I am correct. Are you guys Nazi defenders or what?
'These orange people should be deported' - levi, you are a dog. i dont know how you, a Jew could say that about another Jew. be ashamed
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeletetell me all you nazi supporters.
ReplyDeleteare you scared of the goyim in melbourne, are you scared what they think, or are you scared about what sharon may do is a sakona to the whole of israel.
because i am. and if u cant come to the rally and show solidarity to the people in gush katif then i think you should be deported from the face of this earth.
unfortunately, i have to say most of the melbourne community dont really care about what is happening in israel, they just want to be comfortable in their warm living rooms sitting watching tv.
well i was on the phone last night to someone in gush katif. she was crying and telling me that the council had a public meeting with the residents telling everyone to pack up because we are going to burn the houses.
and you are worried about the word deporting?
I think this angry, abusive response shows the type of person that many people writing here have been concerned about.
ReplyDeleteIf the person/s who write this type of invective behave like that on the street we do have something to worry about. I know this is a very difficult issue to deal with but we cannot sink to the level of insulting anyone who has a different opinion.
I am called a dog then lectured how I refer to others. These settlers are being moved to brand new housing in a safer part of Israel. Unfortunately Israel can no longer afford to spend tens of millions of dollars each year defending these settlers. By the way over 70% are happy and releaved to leave.
ReplyDeleteSo much for DEPORTATION
To run a disgraceful anti Israel campaign full of lies and misinformation is bad enough, but to insult every responsible Jew who cares about Israel and the security of our local Jewish community is unforgivable.
ReplyDeleteI am told that this whole campaign comparing Israel to Nazis are some young BA boys and the Yechi fellows! Since when do these fanatics represent our community.
geoff, lets get 1 thing straight. we heard it from the rebbe many times over, that giving away land is a sakona for the whole if israel full stop. now there is nothing to argue about! dont tell me these people are happy to move to another place. there are people that have millon dollar businesses in gush katif and the government is going to compensate them on that plus more. these people are not in for the money, there in it for the principle. obviously you dont live in israel so its hard for you to understand, but mabe if you give your house to some aboriginal family it might sink in!
ReplyDeleteLofty as you live in Israel you know better!
ReplyDeleteI have family in the settlements who claim that Sharon has no choice and Israel cannot rule over Millions of Arabs. The Rebbe also said that we should not get involved only a selected few leaders and the politicians.
BUT my question is when the bombs challila explode at Caulfield shule and Werdiger Hall are the Orange people still going to claim "PRINCIPLE'!
DONT DO TO A JEW WHAT YOU WONT DO TO AN ARAB!
ReplyDeletethese courageous settlers have been living in gaza and the shomron under fire for too long. if there is anyone who should be expelled it is those vermin out there, the arabs.
AM YISRAEL CHAI
I agree with you, but if we are to be realistic all we can do is be practical and leave Gaza which most torah authorities say is NOT Eretz Yisrael.
ReplyDeleteNow that the Orange people have finally changed 'DEPORTATION' to eviction due to community pressure will they be big enough to apologise to us all for lying and to the Holocaust Survivors for all the trauma they have caused.
ReplyDeleteNo they will not have the menchlikite to apologise. funny how their chariman took the time to write a letter that was posted on this blog site but has been silent ever since while his minions send out vile filthy emails to people and incite anti-social behaviour on this website.The Chairman of the Melb Orange people said that he would take full repsonsibility for his group but his words are hollow since he has not bakced them up with ay action.The chairman of Aust Friends of GK cannot be trusted.By ignoring his obnoxious minions he is agreeing with their nasty actions through his silence.Another example showing that the chairman is impotent to control the group he created.The chairman has opened a pandora's box and now he runs away from and allows it to fester and grow in our community.Moshe Elkman,thank you very much for bringing all this upon us.Let us hope and pray your actions have not done irreparable damage to our community's cohesiveness and security.And if so Coat Man, what will you do to fix the mess you made?
ReplyDeletemairan - u said most torah sources say gaza isnt ours, not all though. we were given the land of israel from the 'euphrates to the nile'. gaza is very important strategically anyways.
ReplyDeleteyanki - they changed 'deportation' to 'eviction', not because of the community, but because they realised they made a mistake, and it was big one. anyways yanki, what is your view on the current situation? do you agree with forcefully expelling 10,000 of your bretheren?
annonymous you agree the orange people make mistakes. Unfortunately we will all suffer from far bigger mistakes than what they have upset the Holocaust survivors.
ReplyDeleteI am not happy what is going on in Israel. It is a very problamatic situation. I do not have the answer and as the orange fanatics have said the security of our community is in G-Ds hands, so I will leave Gush Katif in G-Ds hands as well.
the word deportation was not created by moshe elkman, it was infact created by the women in green. he is just trying to do his best to support the people there, it was a word created by the anti disengagementniks. so the word is changed, now get over it and if you still want an apoly the take it up with the women in green
ReplyDeleteor afsi or the moledet party or the ichud halumi.
and geoff if a bomb drops on your house are you going to ask the government for a safer place to live and let the abos move into it.
listen i havnt got the patience to argue with you all you nazi supporters, but if you honestly think you have a brilliant mind first read the new book boomerang which was published a month ago then come back to me with your nudnik comments.
how would you like to see in 1 year from now arabs gambling in gush katif and the israeli government profitng from the casino!!!!!
lofty, you see things n a simplistic black and white way.I am against disengagement like you are but I do agree with your tactics. Calling other Jews Nazis just shows you are a hotheaded irresponsible noisemaker who cannot think critically or analyze maturely. Not eeryone who is against your orange demo is also for the disengagment.Get it genius?
ReplyDeleteAnd your nasty insulting remakrs only help to hurt your 'cause.'
correction of above, meant to say I do NOT agree with your tactics
ReplyDeleteblue skies - on lofty's behalf, i would like to say that although you dont agree with the 'orange ppls tactics', then r u gonna show up to the rally? bc, regardless whether u agree with their tactics or not, u may aswell show your solidarity with your bretheren in israel. this problem should not have to do with goym looking down on us, or a word misused to aggrivate lots of people, myself included. wake up, no more sinat chinam! there is no greater show of ahavat yisrael than pikuach nefesh. show your solidarity, show your love, let us bring the Moshiach speedily.
ReplyDeleteCHAZAK VE'AMATZ!
the rally is not a demo of ahavas yisroel because it is a rally against the Jewish government and attempts to make Sharon & co our enemies which they are not.They are our fellow Jews, even if they are wrong, we should not march against them i front of the goyim.
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe respected Sharon. The Rebbe was against demonstrations. Most anti disengagement are against your rally. To bring Moshiach just increase your teffilla and Torah instead of making a public nuisance.
ReplyDeleteIt has cost Elkman so far over $40,000 and he has 200 people registered. Nearly 90% under 19 years of age. Can't you accept Jews do not protest against other jews.
would someone please explain to me, what is wrong with having young people? hersh, they probably have more guts than you do to go show their faces and tell the government they are wrong! also, how do u know the actual figures and ages. i think they are simply made up to make a weak point.
ReplyDeleteblue skies - how do you know what the rally is about? have you asked anyone? clearly not. you are just make stupid assumptions. go do your research buddy.
AM HANETZACH LO MEFACHED MI'DERECH ARUKAH!
iN iSRAEL YOU CAN TELL THE iSRAELI gOVERNMENT WHAT YOU LIKE (Although on this matter it is unfortunately too late!) But on Melbourne streets all we should do is support the Israeli Government or we are the same as the Neturei Karta! Go to the Army in Israel these super kids but stop making trouble in Melbourne for Israel and the local Jewish community.
ReplyDeleteWhen you are a little older you will understand!
How do I know what this rally is about?? Good question!
ReplyDelete1)Your web site
2)Your litreture
3)Your rude emails
4)Speaking to some of you
5)Your Deportation ads.
6)Your 'never again'comments here
7)Your Bill boards
It's time to wake up and see black and white, not only orange!
"Young people here in Melbourne have the gutts to tell the Israeli Government that they are wrong". Am I reading correctly. Are these HaShomer HaTzair or which looney group?
ReplyDeleteCAN THE ESTABLISHMENT PLEASE GIVE OUT A MEDIA RELEASE THAT THESE LOONEYS REPRESENT NO ONE!
We are the ones who will suffer from their disgusting actions.
I will sign my own name as I feel extremely concerned at the actions of a few misguided people. Being Jews and supporters of Israel we are living in extremely difficult times. Israel is being bashed daily by Arabs, anti-Semites and many leftists. We read of these attacks all the time, the main line of these anti-Semitic attacks are Israel has a terrible human right record. Israel is no better than the Nazis. Israel evicts people. Israel is not a democracy, etc. etc.
ReplyDeleteHow painful is it to us now when our own flesh and blood are giving moral support to these ‘Israel bashers’. I realize their intentions are not for this purpose but this is irrelevant. In times like this we don’t have the luxury to put our heads in the sand and not be concerned of the consequences.
The facts are that the organizers of this protest seem to belong to a fanatical religious splinter group. They must be stopped, to avoid an extremely dangerous and sad development.
Steven Phillip Teitel
Sth. Caulfield
Moishe Elkman is a decent fellow. He means well. It is the aarons, sauls, and joels who are giving him a bad name. He is being led by these young zealots!
ReplyDeleteToday our Prime Minister Mr Howard said THERE IS A REAL POSSIBILITY OF A TERRORIST ATTACK IN AUSTRALIA.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should lock up these orange activists to save the rest of us! What is the Halacha of someone who causes danger upon Jews?
what these oragne ppl r doing is called 'PIKUACH NEFESH'. tehse 'activists' have more ahavat yisrael than any of you. i think that pikuach nefesh = true ahavat yisrael
ReplyDeleteIf they have Pikuach Nefesh they can kill thenselves if they believe that helps, but please let the rest of us live please!
ReplyDeletePS -Please
josh-someone who brings danger upon other Jews is a JERK! Also look up 'rodef' in halacha.
ReplyDeleteThe Halachot od a Rodef is get rid of him before he will get rid of us. Could our Rabbis tell us if we have an obligation to stop these orange activists who have a Din of RODEF!!
ReplyDeleteMy daughter who attends BR came home with a good idea. After the Rebbe died the Yechinicks came up with a magic solution. Wright on your kippa that the Rebbe is alive- and abraca dabra the Rebbe is alive. Why can't we write on our kippa that the settlers are still in Gush Katif and abraca dabra the settlers will still be in Gush katif. If we can't see them thats a problem with us NOT with gush katif. If it is working for the Yechinicks and the Rebbe is alive and well in Hitham street, why can't it work for us. So we will not need to march just as the yechinicks never marched. The 3 things that are needed are *Painted Kippas *sign back of shule
ReplyDelete*and some chanting after the tefilla. If that is not enough a Gush-Katif mobile will do the job!!
geoff: youre hilarious... what can i say? youve completely outsmarted the orange ppl.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMoshe Elkman talks nicely and politely and seems to mean well, but he is certainly in way over his head, and does not have the humility to seek advice from any Dass Torah here in Melb.
ReplyDeleteAttention "HERSH"! You said on 14th July "the Rebbe respected Sharon". You imply that he would agree with what Sharon is doing today!
ReplyDeletePlease see www.savethelandofisrael.org A web site devoted to the Rebbe's sichos. Many years ago when Sharon was still an Army Officer, the Rebbe actually told Sharon NOT TO ENTER POLITICS, ie not have a change of career by being a politician !!!
How did ORANGE FEVER actually start? Settlers in Gush Katif felt like WW2 victims and wore a yellow star. Holocaust survivors got upset.So they changed it slightly and wore orange stars.Still the holocaust survivors were upset, they said its not the colour, its the STAR we object to. So the settlers said, as long as we don't wear a star, we can keep wearing the orange! That way we dont upset anyone...and so the resistance movement was born...under the orange sunset sky.
ReplyDeleteSo you see that "orange people" simply identify with, and have empathy for, the brave settlers of Gush Katif. They are peace loving loyal citizens.They are NOT "anti" anything or anyone. So what, if they wear orange underwear? But you are a mindless conformist if you wear white underwear - the color of surrender !!!
orange history teacher: AMEN! but the conformists dont wear white underpants... rather blue! the uprooting of settelments brings danger upon! i salute those who r fighting sharon the dictator. a strong nation needs a strong leader - not sharon.
ReplyDeleteAM YISRAEL CHAI!
OD KAHANE CHAI!
The Rebbe was not against Sharon to enter Politics! Rather the Rebbe was against Sharon retiring from the army. If Sharon would have wanted to become a gardener or a plumber the Rebbe would have been agaist it the same. Please read the Rebbes letter and let's stop twisting what the Rebbe said to suit ourselves. We are not Oliver Twist!
ReplyDeleteI was told by israelis, orange is symbolic.
ReplyDeleteKeter
A
Torah
O
Malchus
We want Moshiach now
No more carrots or Oranges for me. I read in the Jerusalem post that clothing shops in Israel cannot sell orange garments as people are embarased to be seen in Orange. Same for our Maccabi team who wouldn't wear their orange track suits.
ReplyDeleteAccording to reports the Macabbi team was told not to wear their orange shirts by the authorities in Israel. Very different from them making the decision themselves.
ReplyDelete"Same for our Maccabi team who wouldn't wear their orange track suits" - exactly as aussieecho said, they were told not to. many of them wanted to though. stop tyring to make it sound like everyone is with the dictator and urself, cos they are not! and shops in israel said that ppl r mainly buying orange, its the new popular colour.
ReplyDeletebuddy, get your facts straight
To anonymous. This was posted on an American blog! Michal Palti is a well known Israeli Journalist.
ReplyDeleteI think you need to get YOUR facts straight. Or stop being a liar just because the facts don't suit your agenda!!!!
Last update - 01:34 18/07/2005
Orange is out
By Michal Palti
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has a favorite tie, in shades of orange. But even he, according to his associates, has put it away in the closet. Orange, which has been adopted by the opponents of the disengagement plan, and is the "flagship color" of the Gush Katif Regional Council, is making fashion consumers hesitate; indeed, orange clothing has for the most part been left on many stores' shelves in recent weeks.
Yet orange happens to be this summer's hot color, elsewhere in the world. Gadi Gol, the director of Royalty, the Israeli franchisee of designer watches, including Dolce & Gabbana and Nike, says that "apple green and orange are the most fashionable colors the world over this spring and summer. If someone doesn't choose orange, he is going against the world fashion trend. An orange Dolce & Gabbana watch is selling quite well. We may have sold more had this color not been `adopted' by opponents of the disengagement."
Some local fashion designers are much more outspoken. At the comme il faut chain, which designs women's fashions, there have been end-of-season sales in recent weeks. The general manager of the fashion house, Sybil Goldfeiner, says that all the orange items have remained on the shelves.
"Our customers are not interested in this color," says Goldfeiner. "Usually, every year we design items in orange, because we like the color and it suits the Israeli summer. This year our customers have voted against. As a feminist, I want to think that this is a conscious feminine decision - women are voting against decisions and opinions with which they do not want to be identified, and to which they are exposed daily. This is their way of protesting."
The revulsion against orange among customers of comme il faut is so great that, according to Goldfeiner, in the coming year they won't design clothes in that color.
Fashion designer Raziela Gershon is also adamant. "I can pack up all the orange clothes and store them until further notice," she says. "The color orange is the trendiest color this year, and since it has turned into a symbol of protest - the customers are protesting against it. The moment that you show orange suits or pants, there is opposition. Women who are against or even in favor of the disengagement, are not interested in being seen in the color in public. This is after all a very summery and Israeli color, and very flattering, and this winter will be darker and gloomier in its absence; it's a shame."
One person who points out the major opposition to the color orange is Yisrael Mamo, the director of the Isha l'Isha chain, which designs clothes for full-sized women. For their advertising campaign, they photographed model Michaela Berko wearing an orange undershirt and top. "Orange is a fashionable color this season, but it didn't sell very well maybe because it's not so common in the larger sizes. We wanted to promote it with the help of the advertising campaign," Mano explains, "but the orange ribbons of the opponents of the disengagement entered people's consciousness and kept them away from the color. Our orange suit didn't sell as well, even though it was photographed in the advertising campaign. Next year we won't be showing orange, and that's a shame."
Reservations about the color have even penetrated manufacturers of children's clothing, at Yalduti, for example. The clothing in the chain is designed by local designers, who each year choose fashionable colors. Parents usually like orange, especially for the summer. This year it aroused reactions ranging from absolute rejection to raised eyebrows.
Maya Biton, the manager of the store on Sheinkin Street in Tel Aviv, says that even the store's orange packaging is arousing reactions: "Some people are totally uninterested in buying orange clothes, and that is evident, and some are hesitant, and their opposition is not as determined. I try to encourage this group, and I tell them `Don't let this movement take the color away from you, don't play the game, don't give in."
In the case of Yalduti, the parents' reaction is evident because the chain manufactures everything for children: from orange bathing suits to toys and bags, and even these items cannot avoid the debate.
Dr. Yaron Timor of the School of Business Management at the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya has been researching the role of color in marketing. "Colors have a physical dimension in their effect on the consumers, and they are also of cultural significance. In Western culture, for example, white symbolizes purity, and in Far Eastern culture, it symbolizes mourning. Black symbolizes prestige. If they want to broadcast recycling, the manufacturers will use packaging in natural beige, et al. Orange symbolizes intense feelings and broadcasts prominence."
He says that it is not surprising that in the field of fashion customers are reacting in this way. "Fashion is after all a field that transmits messages. I don't think that people would react this way when it comes to food, and refrain from buying orange-colored ices or orange-colored juice. In these areas, the tendency is to look at the practical aspects."
The opposition to orange is being felt not only among the private designers (who have branches all over the country), but in the chain stores as well. A visit last week to the Zara branch at the Ramat Aviv Mall revealed that in spite of the vigorous end-of-season sales and the large discounts - most of the orange collection remained on the shelves. Yifat Abergil, the commercial manager of the children's department at Zara, says,"Last season we had lots of orange, and it may be that what is left now is only surplus from the abundance of the previous season. This year our orange is not the color of the fruit, but a darker orange, and therefore I think that there won't be a problem. This week I arranged a wall of dark orange at the Malha Mall in Jerusalem, and I saw that people were showing interest."
Designer Ronen Chen also sees dark orange as a solution. "I darkened the orange as a possible solution. After all, I wanted it to be somewhat different from the color that one sees in all the news broadcasts. In my two stores in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem there is opposition to the color orange, and in Jerusalem there's even more opposition than in Tel Aviv. This year the color happens to be very popular the world over, but my customers aren't interested in it. We made beautiful scarves in orange, which are supposed to be `a spot of color' on the outfit and to liven up any dark clothing dramatically. But the customers didn't want them; the scarves and shawls arouse even stronger opposition than a shirt or pants. I myself love orange, and at an event in my store recently I purposely wore orange: They won't take the color away from me."
Will the adoption of the color orange by opponents of disengagement do long-term damage? According to advertising executive Yoram Dembinsky, creative director of the Tamir Cohen advertising agency: "Most people don't like to be identified with a political statement, and prefer the neutral zone. This color has taken on clear connotations, and it has attracted so much attention that there are companies that would pay millions of dollars for such exposure. In advertising terms, the orange campaign is a great success, absolute identification, and that's why people are avoiding it. I don't think it's a `burned-out color' for the long term," adds Dembinsky, "unless the opponents of the disengagement decide that this is only the beginning, and that they will use it to oppose any other government decision from now on that continues the same policy. Then it will be `borrowed' for a longer period of time."
So the orange people are still dishonest!
ReplyDeleteWell will they learn that SHEKER (dishonehsty) will get them nowhere!
That's the main reason why Tuesday evening was "the mother of all flops"!
Who cares if it was a flop or not! It kept kids happy and occupied! That must be a good thing.
ReplyDeleteyes malka, it was a flop. a flop in which 1000 ppl attended. i would like to see you host a rally like that.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Jewish News there were 600 people there.
ReplyDeleteBut once you take out the kids you would struggle to get 120!
How many adults MARCHED?
ReplyDeleteHow many of them were not Meshiachistim?
TOTAL..........
does it really matter how many Meshiachistim marched?! it brought the communtiy together, although there were a majority of Chabadnikim.
ReplyDeletemalka, y do u think the kids came? just because they can get a free orange hat? this is not the case.
the kids CARE ABOUT ISRAEL, unlike many ppl on this forum who im sure didnt come to the rally.
AM YISRAEL CHAI !
OD KAHANE CHAI !
anonymous, I believe it divided the community. Although I marched with my daughter, many told me they stayed away or left very early due to this protest being used as a platform by the Messianic Jews with their Yellow flags.
ReplyDeleteKahane openly disobeyed the Rebbe many, many times. Just because he was a fanatic doesn't make him one of us!
ReplyDeletekahane brought many jews back onto the jewish path. he did it in a different way to the rebbe though. kahane showed thousands of misguided, learned and average jewish boys, something called 'jewish pride' and 'ahavat yisrael'.
ReplyDeletejust because he disobeyed the rebbe does that make him a bad person?
What do you mean, 'one of us'?
OD KAHANE CHAI!
volvi goldberg: i personally only saw one yellow flag, but wateva, there might have been more..
ReplyDeleteto my point. there is always going to be a division between the left and the right, wherever you are. although people claim that the rally showed division, i think it only showed division in the jewish community and not the melbourne community as a whole.
the fact that there were 100 more or less non religious lefties on the other side of the road showed the division in the jewish communtyto the outer community
It is not division that is the problem. It is turning middle of the road people of a noble cause- supporting the Gush Katif Settlers. People don't want to be associated with these Yechinicks!
ReplyDeletei see no problem with them as a group. next time you think about them in a derogatory sort of way, just remember something called "Ahavat Yisrael"
ReplyDeleteI have rachmonas on them. But unfortunately most middle of the road people don't want a bar of them as they behave like a cult.Apparently they have done alot of damage to the Gush Katif cause.
ReplyDeleteShlompy - you seem to have a lot of time on your hands today.
ReplyDeleteJust because people didn't attend the rally doesn't mean that they are not doing anything for the situation.
david ben meir - first of all there are no such things as
ReplyDelete'palestinians', they are a made up people. lets call them 'arab trespassers who arent wanted by any of their 22 countries' (ATWAWBAOTTC) for short
You claim that u were marching with the "blue", supporting israels democracy. so you think that supporting a DICTATOR and his evil plan is supporting democracy??? thats news to me! If u were supporting democracy you would have a sign saying, "LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE" on the orange side, not the blue
how do you know that the werdiger hall was 3/4 empty? were you there? i highly doubt it.