Aussie Shliach said...
Many of the comments on this site about setting up a new insular Chabad community are typical of the philosophy and actions of the seperatist chareidi communities of Williamsburgh and Bnai Brak - that philosophy is also probably why the option of sending our Chabad children to Adass is also being promoted as a viable option. I am not knocking or criticising those who live that lifestyle - they may be fine examples of frum and committed communities - HOWEVER THIS INSULAR ATTITUDE, NO MATTER HOW ATTRACTIVE AND PRODUCTIVE, HAS SIMPLY NEVER BEEN THE DERECH OF CHABAD AND CERTAINLY NOT THE DERECH OF OUR REBBE IN PARTICULAR.
Our Rebbe sent his most loyal and dedicated Chassidim to towns and areas where there was no Jewish dayschool, no kosher butcher shop, no orthodox Shule, no mikvah etc etc etc. These shluchim would have absolutely revelled in having the type of facilities and educational institutions that we have in Melbourne (warts and all). And then many of them put their kids on the line, in surroundings far far worse than anything here in Melbourne, and they expected their kids to mix with the freist of the frei. They expected their children to be part of their work in the pursuit of fulfilling their shlichus in establishing Chabad Houses and schools etc that were not selfishly established for their own kids but for all. And guess what? The vast vast majority of these Shluchim nevertheless raised their children with chassidishe hashkofos and hanhogois. In my travels and in my own personal experience I constantly marvel at the maturity, dedication and sincerity which even the youngest of the Tzeirei HaShluchim display in such circumstances. As they grow up, the vast majority of these children in turn are/were motivated not to become comfortable baalabattim, thinking of their own comfort and needs, but to continue on with the selfless Shlichus work of their parents and of their Rebbe.
The Rebbe told many a shaliach that the responsibility for their chidren was on his shoulders. These were not just encouraging words. Those who have tried their best to remain true to their duties as the Rebbe's shluchim have seen this befeirush translated into Nachas and success even in the harshest of circumstances.
The real problem is that many members of our community, appear to have lost sight of what Lubavitch is supposed to be and what we as Lubavitchers are supposed to be doing. We have become so overly concerned with our own personal needs and selfish lifestyles and have moved away from the misaras nefesh required of us as selfless Shluchim of the Rebbe dedicated to the shlichus that the Rebbe gave TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US. By all means, in normal circumstances and al pi teveh maybe we would need to think along the lines of the other speratist chareidishe groups - but, as the moderator of this site has also said elsewhere and I repeat again, this is simply NOT OUR DERECH and these are not normal times. The sepratist's pursuit of salvation for himself and his family may dictate a retreat into an insular community BUT IF WE DO SO THEN WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO CALL OURSELVES A TRUE CHABAD COMMUNITY OR SHLUCHIM OF OUR REBBE - WHICH OUR REBBE WANTED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US TO BE. If we would spend more time reaching out to others and doing the hafotzas hamayonois that our Rebbe wanted of us rather than moaning about our own selfish needs (no matter how justified this may appear to be) then I am convinced that we would not be plagued with the balaabatishe krankheit (right OR left extremes) that is unfortunately gaining momentum at the moment. Our Rebbe's brochois would then surely be there to protect us and our children and we would not have to scramble around looking for other eitzois that probably aren't feasible or wont work anyway.
You want CHASSIDISHE nachas from your children? There is no sure guarantee - but in these last moments of golus we surely need to cease the negativism and carping (or is THIS the kind of example that we wnat to give our children?!). If we were honestly involved in the Rebbe's work, each in our own way, and not just in the pursuit of our own comforts (begashmiois or beruchniyois) then I am sure that our children would respect us and learn from us, and would not turn away Ch"V from the example that our Rebbe has taught us to set for them.
How are we going to greet Moshiach? With our kids in Adass and as members of a (very fine but) insular community as has been proposed here - or with our heads held high in the knowledge that we have gone out into the world - with our children by our sides - as Shluchei Adoneinu having done our bit to live with and be mekareiv every single Jew here down under? That's our avoida today as taught to us by our Rebbe - anything else is atzas hayeitzer!
I don't see any other workable practical solution being proposed here. So I say forget the carping and negativism - We all have to go out there positively and do what we can in our own Torah and mitzvois and in hafotzas hamayonois...and I am convinced that while still remaining true to our chabad heritage we will then also reap the reciprocal brochois that our Rebbe has promised each of his Shluchim (and -for the third (fourth?) time - WE ARE ALL POTENTIALLY HIS SHLUCHIM) in Bonei Chayei Umezonei ad bias Goel BB"M.
L'Chaim!
This entire post is one long motherhood statement (self-evident truth that is hardly worth saying or writing).
ReplyDeleteIt adds nothing and is always used by those attempting to preserve the status quo. It has no בכן.
All it tells us to do is that, nebach, we can't change anything, so why dwell on the negative and just be good little Chassidim of the Rebbe. How trite. How glib.
Aussie shaliach (true to his vocation) skillfully builds up a straw man and then proceeds to destroy him. How brilliant.
No-one is arguing what Chabad in Melbourne is ideally supposed to be doing. Sure we are all shluchim of the Rebbe, with Devine protection for our holy work.
Therefore what?
Therefore we must expose our kids to internet, videos, TV, vulgar thoughts and speech? All in the name of our holy Rebbe and his mivtzoim? (על"פ)
This is what you believe the Rebbe wanted? Really, truthfully?
The experiment called YC is truly a failure. The פירות are there for all to see.
But instead of doing what they do in almost all decent size out of town Lubavitcher kehillas (LA, Montreal, Toronto, Chicago, Detroit, etc), provide frum chinuch to our children, we in Melbourne are told this would destroy the school?
Destroy the school? Is it possible to destroy the school anymore than it's been destroyed over the last 20 years?
The answer is obvious to all but a senile old ostridge: We need a frum Lubavitch school in Melbourne!
YV and BR should certainly continue, but let them do what they were founded to do: hafotza.
The "eigena" kids are being let down, that's obvious. But even the very people that the schools were set up to cater for are being ignored. Go and talk to non frum kids that have gone though the school during the last 10 years. See for yourself what their attitude towards Yidishkeit is. They are victims of a school without direction no less that our own kids.
"Aussie Shaliach", if you really are a shaliach of the Rebbe, maybe YOU can help start a real Yiddishe school for our own kids.
אף על פי *שלא* חטא, ישראל הוא
i am a lubavitcher yungeman living in oz and i can tell you from experience that there is only so much you can 'blame' the school, or the head shliach or the community for!
ReplyDeleteA childs outcome is mostly due to what they see and feel at home. dont expect all from school and add a little chasidishkeit to your childs life at home. let your child grow up in a real chasidishe environment at HOME and let school teach them how to read and write
If you give your child the right chasidishe foundation at home (ie dont rely on scool or mesibos shabbos or camp or trips to NY) you can send them to public school and they will be fine.
Dont look to the school for change! Change yourself.
Shloima
Shhloima--if the Chassidishkite all comes from the home, then send your kids to public school. Better yet, why not Catholic school?
ReplyDeleteDon't be ridiculous--of course schools have thier effect on our kids.
but they have less of an effect if kids come from a strong foundation. all i am saying is dont sit back blame teh schools and call for massive change without making massive change in yourself and yor own 4 amos
ReplyDeleteshloima
Aussie shliach makes many good points on what the rebbe expected from us.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it is possible to do and be all this and at the same time ensure that our kids learn in a frum atmosphere - which in Melb -means Adass. I know for a fact that Adass will welcome those Chabad kids whose homes are genuinely chassidish and they don't mind if the father or mother spend all or part of their time doing hafotzas yahadus.
So, yes Rabbi A S, stick to the rebbe's derech - but don't risk your children neshomos. And whatever you may write, the facts are that childen from the best and truly chassidish families - including families who are full time in kodesh activities [I do not with to name them here, but sadly we all know them], have lost children. Some totally lost, some who have become modern/bnei akiva types vechuleh vechuleh.
Mendel, Mendel, you keep harping on about the failed kids in our community. And I agree there are some out there. They are also in Crown Heights and Montreal and Kfar Chabad as well - don't kid yourself that they are not. But your solutions are wrong- what you propose is simply not the way our Rebbe has taught us. Can't you see why the problems you talk of have occurred - precisely because we have many in the community who are selfishly catering to their own well-being and enjoyment of life begashmiyous. They have lost the fire and inspiration of properly following the derech of Chassidus and of being Shluchim for our Rebbe - and their kids see it from them or from their friends and relatives and react accordingly. You are now proposing that we follow the same destructive course - albeit by being selfish beruchniyois. Sending our kids out of the Chabad community and even establishing insular schools within Chabad is simply not the answer for us as Chabadniks. Learning Chassidus, davening like a Chosid and most importantly doing what the Rebbe wants of us in hafotzas hamayonois with mesiras nefesh through the Rebbe's established moisdos (flawed as they may indeed be) are the only ways that we can honestly say that we remain loyal to the derech of Chabad and our Rebbe while at the same time creating the keilim for success for our activities and nachas from our children. What you should be calling for is not closing the shop or jumping ship but the encouragement of more commitment to Torah and mitzvois and a Chassidishe lifestyle WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY while at the same time encouraging mesiras nefesh for another yid and hafotzas hamayonois bichlal. That's the way we will impress and teach and involve our kids in the true outreach derech of Chabad and that's the way we will be zoicheh to the seyatoh dismayoh we all need to keep them on the straight and narrow within the community of Chabad.
ReplyDeleteAS, I have heard these trite words since I was a little kid. Coming to live in Melbourne has opened up my eyes.
ReplyDeleteIt's actually well intentioned but naive people like you that have caused the biggest churbon in Lubavitch.
You took a movement dedicated to Avodas Hashem, Yiras Shomayim, and (YES and) hafotza and turned it into a mixture of Shloima Karlebach and NCSY. If our kids do not have a seriously frum and protected upbringing (especially nowadays), they will be scarred for life.
Yes I know we are loosing kids all over. But in my travels around the world it has become clear that we in Melbourne are way ahead.
If we don't change the way Chabad works quickly, there will not be much left in another generation or two, your well meaning intentions notwithstanding.
Interesting to note that more often than not the stirrers, bullies, and general troublemakers come from chasidishe homes. What happened to Menchlichkeit? ANd I agree with the prior post, change begins at home.
ReplyDeleteIf everyone is a shliach, does that mean that everyone needs to choose himself a "head" shliach?!
ReplyDeleteOn a more serious note, I would hope that my children grow up in an environment where they feel more comfortable around frum yidden that non-frum yidden. At least they will have the litvishe meshugayis, rather than ___ Ch'v.
One simple question has been troubling me! How come its the frum fellows that send their kids to Adass and the modern fellows in Adass who send their kids to us?
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe never took responsibility for the Ruchniyos of the children of Shluchim. If yes none would be frei today nor would we need to spend money educating them. We have to do everything and anything to protect our children from harmful hashpoes and then with the Brocho of the Rebbe our children will be matzliach. To expose our children to all shmutz is nonsence, besides against Halochah!
ReplyDeleteIt's easy for Oz Shliach to say that his children can get their chasidishkeit at home; but I know that mine won't, and it's besides the point whether I should change myself or not, the bottom line is that until I do, my kids shouldn't suffer in the meantime
ReplyDeleteAussie Shalich,
ReplyDeleteThe Talmud says:Even though there is a rule of 'shluchei mitzvah einom nizokin' emmisaries on their way to do a positive deed will see no harm, that is only where danger is not common 'schichi heizeko'.
When you send your teenage son or daughter to a school where a large percentage of the student body, is not shomer shabbes or specially going to that school because the standards are lax.Lets also be honest here:Mechalelei shabbos is really a euphimism for teanage pregnancies and other moral challenges, where one cannot expect from anybody let alone young kids not to be influenced. 'Mah ya'aseh hana'ar veloh yechtoh'
Are you disputing clear directives of Pirkei Ovos 'eini dar eloh bemokom torah' One should live only in a place of torah regardless of monetary hardship.Do you think sending kids to a 'freiyer' enviroment jives with that??
Please don't compare hand picked 'shlichim' who were ascertained to be strong enough to stand up to these tests with your 'amcho' yid.
Bekitser, stop being so partisan and open your eyes!!!
The comments balance the post..
ReplyDelete:)
to Issadore David
ReplyDeleteSorry to be blunt but if YOU are not willing to change nothing the school does will help your children. By showing your kids that YOU their ultimate role model in life is changing they too may change
Unless Chasidishkeit is reinforced in the proper ways not in the BS ways at home your kids will turn out how they turn out. Dont make it someone else's responsibility to 'infuse frumkeit or chasidishket or even menshlechkeit' in your kids
shloima
This is not an either or question. The home is important. The school is important. The peer group is important. The kehilla is important.
ReplyDeleteWhen only one of those influences in positive, you will have problems.
If your children see how out of touch their old man is with the 'reality" they see in school, they are going to think of you as someone with their head in the clouds
ReplyDeleteLets call a spade a spade. The Rebbe wants, what Hashem wants that we bring up our children and influence Jews around us to keep the Mitzvos of Hashem. Chassidus is a vehicle to achieve this it is by no means a substitute. We must use any means available to keep our kids frum. I would rather have 10 kids in Adass than one keeping zilch.
ReplyDeleteSo lets focus on the problem of kids dropping out rather than scrutinize if Adass is the best way to protect our kids from becoming Junkies etc. As Tzaddikim said "which road we take to become closer to Hashem is not important, as long as we ger there"
I'll probably have to send my kids overseas when they reach high school
ReplyDeletethe high schools are the danger zones of YC & BR. Good kids get ruined there. BR is worse than YC bec they keep on saying what a good school it is--yeah, good in secular studies, but rotten in kodesh. Any Chassidish girls getting produced there? One or two a year, maybe?
ReplyDeleteThere is a basic error in perception that causes a conflict here:
ReplyDeleteI have found that shluchim generally do not accept any responsibility to care for their communities' needs, help those who struggle with gashmius or ruchnius, find aid for under-performing students, etc. Instead, they concentrate on their owned and operated family businesses (that is, their mosdos, shlichus, etc.) and let every family make his or her own way.
For the most part, shluchim reject the notion that they are community fathers. They primarily are looking for more of what they themselves need and want.
This is totally opposite than what the Rebbe wanted through his whole holy life. The Gashmius of some of our Shluchim shows that we have new materialistic priorities. Some of our houses would make the Rebbe very sad. I think we should give credit where it is due and Rabbi Groner still lives as a chosid should!
ReplyDeleteWhat about some of his children???
ReplyDeleteDoes Rabbi Groner look what is the best in the long term for our institutions or what ist in the long term for his Children??
ReplyDeleteJust asking!
He is only human!
ReplyDeleteGive him a break. Who doesn't work to help his children. Rabbi Groner is a fine man.
If not for R' Chaim Tzvi his father would not be a Meshiachist!
ReplyDeletere nepotism an dchabad shluchim checkout a recent post by Atlas
ReplyDeleteA father has a chiyuv to teach his children a parnoso.
ReplyDeleteI suppose helping them make a living is also Ok
I am not convinced that Rabbi Groner is a Meshiachist. My logic tells ms anyone who saw Lubavitch in its glory for many years cannot really be a Meshiachist. In those days (up to 1990)no one would have dreamed to think that the Rebbe was Moshiach. Lubavitch as all other communities held that Hashem will send us Moshiach. Hashem will decide when and who it shall be. No amount of advertising or campaigning will change that. It will not be a competition nor an election so even if someone would have wanted 'their candidate' it was irrelevant. We don't tamper with Hashems choice. We believed that the Rebbe would lead his chassidim towards Moshiach but we were all mainstream. Even with the "We want Moshiach Now" push from the Rebbe nobody suggested that we nominate and elect Moshiach. This was started by 'newcomers' and only once the Rebbe had no more strength to lead.Also the fact that there was no one to take over as Rebbe caused this vaccum.
ReplyDeleteMay we all make Teshuva and return to the path that frum jews took for thousands of years, and stop making ourselfs look like some loonies. No other Chosid from a different Tzaddik would dream of thinking that their Rebbe is/was Moshiach!
I would not exactly call Rabbi Majesky, Rabbi Nachshon, Rabbi Wolpe, Rabbi Ginsberg, all of them major Moshiachists from the beginning of this YECHI stuff, newcomers. And of course, Rabbi Yoel Kahn who started it and then realized his mistake after it was too late and could not stop the madness.
ReplyDeleteWe need to behave like the founders of Chabad in Melbourne did in the 1960-1980 period. As they were focused on middle of the road yiddishkeit rather than push a total different agenda they achieved great things like many, many Baal Teshuvas, Enormous respect from the WHOLE community, many very modern established families sent their children to Y/BR. Are there were no dropouts from frum families. WHY?? Because we were not obsessed to push our own agenda and it didn't bother anyone when y students went to mainstream Yeshivas. We have many graduates from mainstream yeshivas including Rabbi Glick, Rabbi B. Cohen, Rabbi Yanki Barber etc. Chassidus was a way to grow in TORAH AND YIRAT SHOMAYIM. Today the focus is to be a party man or nothing. To teach Israelis to sing the Rebbe is Mashiach is more important than to teach them what shabbos is. We have become topsy turvy.
ReplyDelete770, spot on!! In YC & BR they get lots of ideology and hype about the Rebbe as Moshiach and how Lub is the greatest, but very little real Chassidus. The education used to stree working on ourselves but we do not teach self improvement anymore, and that is why so many people cannot stand our uppity snotty kids (and adults who are so up themselves).
ReplyDeleteI know many modern families who choose to send their children to Y/BR as Adass is too frum and Yavnah is co-ed. They look at Y/BR as modern orthodox with one problem which is lub idiology. So all they do is teach their children that anything about Lubavitch is crazy. The frum children from non chabad homes hate chabad.
ReplyDeleteHersh, and that anti-Chabad attitude from those frum non-Chabad children is an insidious influence on the kids from Chabad homes and helps turn them off to Yidd.
ReplyDeleteBeth Rivkah is far more similar to any Mizrachi school in Israel, than any Chabad School.In Israel Chabad schools learn what the friediker Rebbe wrote against zionism and do not celebrate Yom-Hatzmut!
ReplyDeleteThanks to Mr G.
Mr. G's hashkafas (as one can judge by how he has run BR) are much closer to Zionism than Chabad Chassidishe.
ReplyDeletewhat did the Rebbe Rayatz teach about Zionism? I never learned that, enlighten me please.
I will try to translate it and post it. Mr G will not like it as the Rebbe Rayatz was very critical of zionism!
ReplyDeleteWhich other Chabad school in the world do the girls daven in modern Hebrew!
Excuse me but who said ANY child attending Y/BR davens in modern hebrew? Have you actually heard them? The majority cannot read hebrew to any level of proficiency and CERTAINLY do not understand the language. Beside this point...start with something more basic...Is it not more important that they know how to be good Jews?
ReplyDeletethis question of how to bring up children and their schooling is two-pronged. It is the family setting the level and the education system strengthening and deepening that level. The parenting skills in your communities are on the whole lacking and something must be done to strengthen this. The schools need then to be addressed by concerned and knowledgable parents making (and keeping) quality teachers who reflect the higher standard. People who are connected with the education of the youth MUST NOT have vested interest, but have a higher goal and ethics about what role they feel education is about. The problem as I see it, is simply that too many people are too overwhelmed, tired or underskilled to take on ts responsibility...and so the children and the future suffers.
ReplyDeleteStart with your own house. Learn to parent more effectively and help others to do the same. Then change the way your school is structured so that it is run by people of the highest moral and ethical standards who cannot be corrupted by pressure or money.
ReplyDeleteIt would also then help to be more welcoming to those of us on the outside who admire Chabad for all it stands for, but find it GREATLY lacking in this community.
If we let Groner appoint the board this mess will never be fixed. All you need to be elegible to sit on the board is lots of gelt and be a YES man!
ReplyDeletelevi-SPOT ON!
ReplyDeleteThe current ideology of MONEY, POWER, CONTROL must change. Until this doesn't change, nothing will!
ReplyDeleteMaybe we should campaign for a constitution and democratic elections. In Adass the Rabbi is totaly seperate from the administration. All board members are voted for and their Rabbi has more respect and power.
ReplyDeleteWE NEED NEW SCHOOLS!!! THE ESTABLISHMENT WILL NEVER EVER CONCEDE AN OUNCE OF POWER!!!
ReplyDeletePeople power can achieve alot. If we would have boycotted the party at crown casino as it had no mechitzah and the MC was a disgrace, next time they would think twice.
ReplyDeleteSilence is the problem.
What would the Rebbe say when women are speakers at Chabad functions with so called Spitz chabad present. No other frum kehilla would allow this. This is not for chassidim rather for Modern Orthodox.
And women without a sheitel!!!!
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to our Shochet for backtracking on the Mechitzah issue (Jewish News). But would the good Shochet please share his learned views with us!
ReplyDeleteDon't these guys always sit on the fence.
ReplyDeleteNEED A VERY STRONG FENCE FOR SOME OF OUR RABBIS
ReplyDeleteGive credit where credit is due. Rabbi Mordechai Gutnick is not sitting on the fence!
ReplyDeleteThe good shochets view is, he has no view.
ReplyDeleteThat's exactly what he wrote in the Australian Jewish News.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it a little strange that the President of our Rabbinical council is a shochet, has no shule, no members, no mitpallelim etc. etc.And is busy going to the abbatoirs! So what experience could he have re a mechitzah at the Springvale shtiebel (chapel).
At least he went to be photographed at Flinders Street Station with the Iman!
ReplyDeleteThe Iman is also apparently against Sharon so the Orange people would welcome him!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteOnly if he believes that the Rebbe is Moshiach!
ReplyDeletelook at the AJN this week. the shochet went and had his photo taken with the inman who says that no one knows for sure that arabs blew up the World Trade Centre. The shochet should be ashamed of himself for posing with this Jew-hater. and we should write to the AJN and say so!
ReplyDeleteParsha I think this is a cause as good as any for a musical march. Lets put on our orange T shirts paint our faces and get going. 1-2-3
ReplyDeleteWith our Israeli flags.
ReplyDeleteCome on girls and boys!!!!!