A few commentors on this blog have discussed sending Lubavitch children to Adass Yisroel - Melbourne's charedi school. Is this what we really want for our children? Surely if we consider ourselves chassidim of Lubavitch we want a truly Lubavitch chassidic education for our kids.
Maybe some will ask why not send our kids to Adass...it is a frum school run by frum yidden. Surely they will get their Chabad influence at home - just like the Gerrer, Satmar, Bobov and misnagdisher will get the flavour of their groups at home.
Fortunately Chabad is different from other chassidic groups in that it demands more than just an attachment to a Rebbe (or Rosh Yeshiva for our "Litvisher" friends). Chabad is a "lifestyle". It permeates our entire life and effects how we live our lives. Almost every Addas yungerman has a goyishe name when at work outside the community. Almost every Lubavitcher is proudly known by their Jewish name. Other chassidic groups will "intermarry" - a Bobov girl marries a Satmar boy etc. Most of our children wouldn't dream of marrying someone who was not a Lubavitcher - this is because both men and women are chassidim of the Rebbe and want to live a Chabad chassidic lifestyle (whatever they interpret that to mean).
What I am saying is that Chabad is unique in that the Rebbe made a lot of demands on his chassidim which, at times, are difficult to live up to. We become better people by stretching ourselves and trying to reach new spiritual heights. If Melbourne had a real Chabad chassidic education our children would realise this and be proud to be chassidim of the Rebbe.
From comments on previous posts in this blog it appears that many people feel this way. The challenge is to get past all the noise made by certain leaders of the community and to get a groundswell going to change the community. How to achieve this bepoel I do not know....
"Almost every Addas yungerman has a goyishe name when at work outside the community"
ReplyDeleteThis is an old Hungarian minhag, nothing to do with Adass. Anyway, is generally not true with those under 40.
"If Melbourne had a real Chabad chassidic education our children would realise this and be proud to be chassidim of the Rebbe."
IF, but we don't and all indications are that we will not for the foreseeable future.
I don't think any Lub sees Adass as ideal for our children, but it is 1000% better than anything we are offering them at the moment.
lechaim is right. at least thegirls in adass all dress like a jewish woman should. but then the adass uniform is designed according to the halacha as regards to tzenius. adass girls must wear tights from age9 or is it 6 - i am unsure. BR girls are allowed to wear short skirts and socks - something that would never be tolerated in any chabad school. new arrivals from CH are utterly shocked at out standards, but usually shut up about it and eventually that is how their own daughters dress.
ReplyDeleteAnd what is this nonsense about goyishe names? I have 4 Adass neighbours - not any of the parents nor any child has a goyish name. Someone is dreaming
Hello from NY.
ReplyDeleteSorry to disappoint you my dear friend but when you write that Chabad has more demands than other chasidic groups you must be very far down under with your head in the ground.In fact, Chabad is known, here at least, as basically being modern orthodox.Modern dress codes eSpecially for ladies, but very much for men to,movies, videos, television, goyisheh newspapers are thing which are done 'lechatchileh ariber' in Crown Heights.In fact if a Satmar or other chasidic boy iS showing an inclination to going 'off the derech' a Lubavitcher girl will be sought as a last resort for him to find at leaSt a jewish Shiduch.I don't mean that all the boyS and girls in Crown Heights behave this way,rather that this behaviour is, very much tolerated.
"a truly Lubavitch chassidic education for our kids."
ReplyDelete"Chabad is unique in that the Rebbe made a lot of demands on his chassidim".
Are you willing to jeapordize your children's yiddishkeit for the sake of hiskashrus? what else is there about a "Lubavitch" education that is different from adas?
I didn't see your cherem on anon. postings earlier. Please call me Issadore
ReplyDeleteIs it true that some daven to the Rebbi that G-D should be well and healthy?
ReplyDeleteThe mentality that chabad chassidus comes before having frum kids makes it seem a little that way.
Chassidus means more than than which team we follow. Lets strengthen our Ahavas Yisroel with less loshon Hora, make sure our women don't dress in the latest trend looking like a shiksa chollila, be more makpid on the level of kashrus, Throw out the TV, internet, videos etc., stop wearing jeans and little kippas, and not participate at functions without a proper mechitzah. This is the foundation of a chassidish lifestyle.
ReplyDeleteYou guys make me sick. Don't be Hypocrites. Why is knocking Lubavitch not Loshon Hora?
ReplyDeleteWhile my kids (as most) hang out, watch TV, play internet, dress as BA kids, etc. the Adass kids are learning Torah. I wonder which gives the Rebbe more Nachas?
ReplyDeleteTo frei gvir--it is not just those with money who are corrupting Melbourne--it is that those with money (and the money gave them positions of authority & influence)who are in control and they have weak Chassidishe hashkafas who are corrupting Melbourne.
ReplyDeleteThat plus a weak old head shaliach and nepotism have corrupted Melbourne.
It really is that simple.
what we NEED, is less knockers, and more people willing to stop whinging and work WITH, not against our schools.
ReplyDeleteAn excellent start would be to treat the system with honesty. Use a service, pay for it! To the best of your capabilities of course, which, in plain terms, means pay your school fees, BEFORE you renovate, take you family overseas, purchase a new car........
And further, to assert that it is money corrupting Melbourne????And That our head is weak....and nepotism Again, stop knocking,start working.
Pay your fees for what purpose? So your children can be ruined, so every vestige of chasidishkeit can be expunged from those pure neshomos? Are you kidding?
ReplyDeleteI personally think that only if parents decide NOT to pay fees, until the schools are made accountable and effective, can we have any effect. It's clear that money talks. Why not see if anyone is listening?
To FED Up--Get real mate, the powers that be are using the system as their own private business. There is not any financial transparency. Where is all the money going? Perhaps into the pockets of the committee? Besides the lack of transparency--everyone knows the Groner gang has made lots of special deals. There are certain people who, becuase they are in the right clique, or for whatever reason, were given special deals and they do not have to pay fees EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN AFFORD TO!!!! It is the hard working middle class person without the right connections who is squeezed by the committe to pay more and more while those with connections either do not pay their fair share or else they make money off the school by taking bigger salaries than they deserve or money laundering though tzedakah. The only way to prove all this is not true is by opening the financial records which the system will never allow.What are they hiding?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion a Chabad school in a smaller community, basically anything outside of the New York region and Eretz Yisroel, will be a inferior to the other 'chareidi' shools.The reason is simple:They are also catering to the non religous, the 'hardly' religous and the kids of Lubavitch baaley teshuva who, don't know much and cannot study with their kids, all this together makes the schools a very poor, partisan choice, for a Frum from birth person.
ReplyDeleteI have heard unbelievable things about the Bais Rivkah in Melbourne.How in heaven can you have teenagers from strong Lubavitch backrounds together with kids from mechalilei shabbos backrounds, without them being influenced??
Amazing how blinded a person can become because of partisanship
Heshy--it is not partisanship that blinds them but pure GIVAH. They must believe that they belong to the best club in town and the principles of that club are not as important as trying to make everyone believe they are the BEST.
ReplyDeleteA big gadol and expert in chinuch came here and said this about these schools--they concentrate too much on ideology and not enough on learning about Yiddidhkeit.
He also said the frum kids should be separated from the fry.
It seems Aussie Shaliach feels it is better for kids to be fry altogether rather than run the risk of becoming one of the other 'insular" cheredi frummers.
ReplyDeleteWhat does "BA" stand for?
ReplyDeleteBnei Akiva, that is our kids first step towards becoming shkotzim and shiksas rachamono litzlan.
ReplyDeleteJust check out how many of our top families have children who are or were there..
The agenda of any community is created and maintained by the rabbis. Unfortunately today, just as the Mishna tells us, their agenda is money, power, and honor. That's why those in the community with these three things--whether they're frum or not--are given
ReplyDeletespecial attention and influence, favors, or positions of authority. The rabbis in turn get more money, more honor, and more power. It's just like the situation before the Baal Shem Tov came.
Fine you say, that's how it is. But I ask: How many Chabad children can we all think of who have failed in cheder, become bored with Yiddishkeit, or lost out on Chabad jobs that they'd love to have but couldn't get because their parents were not connected to the power structure. How many Chabad kids do you know who needed more attention because he or she didn't chap Yiddish in cheder or had a learning issue and didn't get what he or she needed? I know scores of children like this.
Now the new shtick is "mitzuyanim." Yeshivas, housing, jobs, etc. The good things are doled out for those who are "inside." Being in a community is fine if all you like is going to people's simchas; for the really big stuff you're on your own.
The truth is this: We are in the throes of the era of Moshiach. It is extremely difficult for many Yidden to thrive spiritually and materially. If the good things a community has to offer its young people are distributed selectively, if jobs and responsibilities are given out to the wealthy or connected, if attention is withheld except for the "mitzuyanim," young people and others will soon get the message and lose hope.
Hashem yerachem. We need Moshiach now.
If we campaign to get rid of the TV and internet from Chassidish homes there would be an immediate change. Even the non Jewish experts on child behaviour state that tv, video and internet are the biggest dangers in bringing up children. If Rabbi Groner would state the obvious YOU ARE NOT A CHOSID IF YOU HAVE TV, VIDEO OR INTERNET IN YOUR HOME he would have more nachas of his Kehilla.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe then he wouldn't have a Kehilla?
ReplyDeleteHow can we ban videos when it has become part of our religion?
ReplyDeleteEver been to shul on Motzo Shabbat and seen the show?
The rebbe would have thrown out the video and the sickos who invented this idea
What are you talking about! The videos are a wonderful way of keeping the Rebbe at the forefront of our and our children's minds. The Rebbe always emphasised using modern things for good eg. Chabad.org was one of the first, if not the first, organised and informative Jewish web sites.
ReplyDeleteI have done some research as this video issue was troubling me.
ReplyDeleteIn Adass as other overseas kehillasVideos are allowed on the following conditions.
Only in a Public place (but not in a Shule)
No women are shown at all.
Must be a message to strengthen Yiddishkeit.
Bust be under the auspices of a Heimishe Rav.
The actual video cannot be given to anyone accept who is authorised by the Rav.
No video equipment can be taken to a private home (in case it is then used for other videos.
Some places apparently are makpid to have special new equipment as it is not a kovod to have Torah messages on a machine that has been used for filth.
I don't see that your "video issue" can be compared to showing vidoes of the Rebbe in a positive atmosphere. Obviously one would not show Disney videos in shul...
ReplyDeleteThe question is having a video machine in a private home which maybe is for videos of the Rebbe but I guess some also use it for other videos as I see some fine families going to the video library and I doubt it they get chassidishe videos.
ReplyDeleteI hear that Rav Moishe Landau of Bnei Brak who is one of the leading Poskim said AL PI HALACHA it is Osur to have a TV or Video in your home. All Chareidim accept this Psak except for a great portion of Chabad. I cannot hear I word from Rabbi Groner!
ReplyDeleteAnd what about the shtus from Pittsburgh--Agent Efes? Its proponents argue that it strengthens Yiddishkeit. Narishkeit! The Rebbe is screaming but the machers in Pittsburgh love the money, attention, terumahs, etc.
ReplyDeleteRabbi Landau is a world renowned posek accepted by all chareidim except Chabad. Talking about Poskim I'm told by staff at Solomons that Babbi Ch. Z. who supervises Solomons doesn't have a clue of the Halochos of Shechita and meat preperation.
ReplyDeleteMendel you are very ignorant. Rav Landau is a Lubavitcher and all Chabad accepts him. Secondly, what would the the people in Solomons who cut up the meat and serve it know about shechita?
ReplyDeleteAgent Emes is terrific for chiuch. The Rebbe's shittah was to sue technology and media to spread Yiddisheit.
ReplyDeleteTo Meshulam-
ReplyDelete1)Rav Landau gave an Issur against TV, Video and internet in the home.All accept this besides most of Chabad!
2) A shechita needs a Rabbi to supervise the shechita, kashuring etc. This Rav must be well versed in all the Halachot concerning these matters. The shochtim and mashgichim feel that R' Ch. Z. (or is father) don't know much about these topics.
Dear Meshulam, To accept Rav Landau means to accept his psak.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to the comments on the way girls of BR dress, there is nothing wrong with wearing fashionable clothes as long as they are modest. Of course it is not appropriate to wear tight revealing clothes. There are clothes that are avaliable that do fit with the modest guidelines that are fashionable and there is nothing wrong with it.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to copying the way the Adass community dress - the young girls often look like old women and the way the boys are encouraged to dress with their long black coats and hats throughout the week encourages anti-semitism. If adults want to dress this way, that is their choice, but asking a young boy to dress in this way is unfair. This style of clothing encourages riducule, and may very well encourage goyim to 'start with them'. Jewish law asks people to dress in a modest way, not to make yourself look totally riduculous. The Jewish people already suffer from anti-semitism in this world. We don't need to encourage more.
The reason we were taken out of Mitzrayim is we did not copy the Goyim in language, dress and names!
ReplyDeleteAnti semitism is not caused by a kippa, a kapota, payes streimel or any chassidic dress code. The Rebbe Rayatz wore a spodek. Anti semitism comes from assimilated jews as in Germany, Jews pushing in at a supermarket, cheating, closing streets for our parades, Being in high power positios in football etc. Indians Arabs etc dress as per their culture. Nobody hates them for it. Some might think it is funny by causing anti semitism NEVER!
It is forbidden according to the Shulchan Orach to dress as the goyim do. How can you suggest that the Rebbe with his hat and Kapota caused anti semitism. BR girls have no confidence and feel that they need to change their wardrobe every time some warped gay designer in Paris decides for them what is the new cool look. Frum girls are elegant, well dressed and proud to be different than the shiksas. Some girls around the corner of Hotham and Balaclava dress as tramps!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous you are a self hating Jew!
To anonymous!
ReplyDeleteIf you can see the majority of BR girls dressed modest either I need new glasses or you do!
BR girls dress modest?
ReplyDeleteHave u ever noticed the uniform?
Short sleeves are accepted. Socks are OK.
Some wear their skirts quite high
NOT A SINGLE CHABAD OR CHAREDI SCHOOL IN THE WORLD HAS THIS.
NOT ONE!!!!
Mr G.- DO SOMETHING!!
it's really a pity that SS doesn't have daughters. SHE would have made a BIG noise about this. BUt we, we sit back and kvetch quietly and do nothing about it while another generation o Chabad girls - know zero about tzenius. Ad Mosay?
Not everyone in Adass are Chassidim, but I suggest they are all much closer to a chosid than many of us are. Nobody wears jeans, leather kippa, hairstyles, walk into shule without a hat/jacket, women dress like any shiksa on the street. Whenever there is a video about Loshon Hora or dressing like a bnos yisroel where are we? Mixed functions,letting children hang out, accepting any level of kashrus, letting Bochurim and girls mix, going to concerts which let's not fool ourselves are mixed!
ReplyDeleteThe way the Rebbe dressed, behaved I think Adass follow the Rebbe far better than we do!
I agree with authentic lubavitch. But the powers will never admit it. It's easier to just bad mouth anyone who is better!
ReplyDeleteThe fact is our kids are going off and theirs are not. The proof is in the pudding.
ReplyDeleteIf the Rebbe showed up in Melb (hypothetically, not 'be poel') and we erased all the names on the schools, and asked him to visit each one, and then tell us which one was the best one for our Chabad kids, which one would he pick? The answer is obviously ADASS!!!
ReplyDeleteSO SHOSHANA MUST BE RIGHT. sHOULDN'T SHE GET AN APOLOGY FROM ALL THE BIG MACHERS!
ReplyDeleteApology! FORGET IT. First they should admit they can't run a school and stand aside!
ReplyDeleteThey can't stand aside without losing their vested interests=$$$$$. Since they are mercantile minded, what would motivate them? We need a new system.
ReplyDeleteThe Beis Din fell due to Public pressure. If enough demand a new independent board Groner will have to buckle!
ReplyDeletemaven are you actually impying that running the school is a profitable exercise? Or even that those in the positions you refer to are being paid enough to warrant the constant slanderous attacks by Frum "chassidim" who think nothing of loshon horah and continual knocking? I am no chassid, Ibut I know enough to know that the Rebbe went out of his way to encourage every jew. Perhaps learn from his tolerance and love of all Bnei Yisroel?
ReplyDeleteIf they are not running the school for profit, then let them open their books and prove it. The lack of transparency creates suspicion of wrong doing. What are they hiding?
ReplyDeleteReputable schools and organisations have checks and balances put in place to keep everyone honest. A closed shop like YCBR is automatically asking to be thought of as corrupt.
If they are completely honest and above board, if they do not like people casting aspersions on their integrity, then it is within their power to end the rumours by becoming forthcoming abut how things are running.
I strongly suspect they will never do so simply because the system is totally corrupt.
The Rebbe taught tolerance, but never to water down our principals. The Rebbe was a lion deffending authentic Chassidishe chinuch. Tolerant of other people but not to make our own school "Modern Orthodox'. When more children are frieing out than frei children becoming frum we don't have the luxury to be too tolerant, IF WE WANT ANOTHER GENERATION OF CHASSIDIM OF THE REBBE.
ReplyDeleteAD MOSA , spot on!
ReplyDeleteWhen Chabad Youth make concerts in partnership with Bnei Akiva what do you expect of our students!
ReplyDeleteNowhere else in the world would chabad do anything together with Bnei Akiva!
ReplyDeleteI think Melbourne Chabad are no more chassidish than BA. So it is a suitable marriage.
ReplyDelete770-sad but true!
ReplyDeleteNext Tuesday 2 hours of fun at Caulfield hall with girls and boys from Chabad and Bnei Akiva drumming together, will really give the Rebbe chassidishe nachas.
ReplyDeleteMaybe now is the time for parents to be responsible and not let their children hang out at this looney demonstration!
ReplyDeleteBesides the physical danger, damage to the community, hurting Israel, going against the Rebbe what good can come out of a mixed boy-girl, chabad-Bnei evening.
Warning from our Prime Minister regarding Terror attack in Australia?
ReplyDeleteSo lets be responsible parents!!!
First let the head shaliach take down the Orange board from OUR school!
ReplyDeleteCount down to July 19. Let's hope hardly anyone shows up.
ReplyDeletePlenty of kids will be there, unless we organise a disco for them instead.
ReplyDeletei THINK THE DEMONSTRATION WILL BE A DISCO!
ReplyDeleteSo how many turned up?
ReplyDelete(I saw about 40 anti-anti-disengagement leftwing kids on the other side of the road - holding candles. They musthave thought it was Friday night.)
APPARENTLY THERE WERE AS MANY ADULTS ACROSS THE ROAD AS ON THE YESHIVA SIDE. THEY HELD CANDLES AS THE ORANGE PEOPLE REQUESTED TO HOLD CANDLES, IN THEIR ADS!
ReplyDeleteThere were over 600 people in the Werdiger Hall last night and about 40 protesters from Hashomer.
ReplyDeleteand how many over the age of 18? 20%?
ReplyDeleteTo Parsha. You must have learnt your percentages at Yeshiva.
ReplyDeleteDefinetly more than 80% were children.
Look at the photos, especially in the AJN.