AE I respect you highly for admitting you made a mistake. If my advice is worth anything then
1) delete this whole topic, rather than invite people to comment on it!
2) Delete any negative comments written anonymously against a person who uses their real name.
3) Do not allow people to talk in the name of our community. OUR, WE, US!
4) As you deleted Rabbi Gutnicks comments until you verified them, same policy regarding quoting a prominent Adass Spokesman etc. I will email a statement from Mr. Abelesz who will explain that this comment is twisted and malicious. It was posted to incite hate. Mr. Abelesz claims he has a sister in law from chabad plus the majority of his family.
We have no intention to threaten or close you down; all we want is that
this site should attack nobody but especially those good Jews who contribute
very generously to our institutions.
There is no purpose served to put other communities under the microscope.
This is definitely not the derech of Chabad.
I have admitted more than once that I made a mistake in making statements about other communities. It was obviously wrong and I again apologise for my statements which appear only under Aussieecho.
Obviously I cannot be at my computer 24/7 but will delete comments referring to individuals when I see them. I am happy for people to write to me at aussieecho@gmail.com if they see something that I have missed.
But - I will still write my opinions about Chabad and our modod. We are all members of our community and have an equal stake in its future.
ae YOU ARE A CHAMP!
ReplyDeleteWe should all focus on what is the best long term solution for Chabad in Melbourne. Even if we all mean well, some fine tuning needs to happen as the results should be better.
ReplyDeleteWhatever can be achieved AE will be part of the solution (not the problem)
Getting back to the subject of YCBR.
ReplyDeleteThe PTB has forgotten the original purpose of the schools' existence. For them, their control and authority, has replaced the original Chabad ideals. In their minds their authority and power has become the raison d'etre of the schools. They have convinced themselves that maintaining their control and authority is in the best interests of everyone. They identify their own personal agendas as the purpose of the school. Their egocentric views taints everything they do and they find it difficult to comprehend that many parents cannot agree with their view of things.
Not only does this school lack Chabad hashkafas, it also lacks basic ethics and morality. Only machers and money rule. The kids know it too. If a new school opened tomorrow a majority of parents would jump ship.
What are we waiting for? How many more children have to go down the drain before we do something?
And people are worried about bad publicity from this blog? That is the least of our problems.
The bad publicity is to see some of the kids on the street
ReplyDeleteA teacher who taught at YC and is now at Yavneh was asked which school gives you a better chance to have frum children YBR or Yavneh? He answered For Girls BR and for Boys Yavneh! I was disappointed at why Yavneh came before YC?
ReplyDeleteTo Gefilte fish.. put some chrein on yourself will you ? As if you know what the original purpose of our schools here are. You have no doubt read the letters from the Rebbe to the founders here about the purpose and functions of the schools... or have you?
ReplyDeleteAnother point. I look around the shul and see some of our boys, and I note that there are dozens of chassidishe boys around who are maintaining the level of chassidishkeit. They will surely become shluchim of the rebbe.. These are our products of whom I am immensely proud !
YY, the bad publicity is in fact you presenting this as bad publicity
ReplyDeleteTo Insighter
ReplyDeleteSo am I! but I cry for the others who are on drugs etc.
If you went on a holiday to London. Went with your 8 children on the underground and only 4 came out alive Challila. Would you also say how fantastic that 4 are alive?
insighter,so one has to read the Rebbe's letters to the school to know it has gone away from his derech? The Rebbe wants kids who are totally involved in secular studies above kedusha, kids who are not into being tznius, who are into rock & roll and sports mania, who use curse words, and mock the Torah? You are trying to pretend the elephant is not in the room, when not only is it here, but it has made a mountain of stink!
ReplyDeleteI am finally realising that the mountain of stink is being pooped by the ones badmouthing here.Yes! one needs to look in the Rebbe's letters! Without a doubt. And I ask each and everyone of us. Are we setting the right example and dugma for our children? Look around the shul and judge for yourselves!Perhaps if the poop was replaced with the chrein as earlier suggested things would taste much much better. Ad mosai, I must say that your example is pretty much NOT spot on.
ReplyDeleteLechaim to us all, may we hear only good news.
insighter contradicts himself: insighter wrote:
ReplyDelete" I look around the shul and see some of our boys, and I note that there are dozens of chassidishe boys around who are maintaining the level of chassidishkeit. They will surely become shluchim of the rebbe.. These are our products of whom I am immensely proud ! '
The in his next post insighter wrote:
"Are we setting the right example and dugma for our children? Look around the shul and judge for yourselves!"
gefilte fish asks; which of the above two is it that you hold by? It cannot be both.
And if you think this blog stinks then you have the right and the choice to surf elsewhere, as we have the right to stay on this blog!
insighter wrote: "one needs to look in the Rebbe's letters! Without a doubt."
Are you an expert in the Rebbe's letters? If so, please enlighten us. If not, why should we take you on your word that you know any better?
Though I don't understand all the words (even though some of my best ffriends are Jewish !) yours is the funniest and one of the most enjoyable blogsites I have come across. Will keep reading it. As one who despairs of human activity have a look at my latest post about a DOG'S LIFE on http://hillierwake.blogspot.com/2005/07/its-dogs-life-organic.html
ReplyDeleteTo insighter,
ReplyDeleteYou made the comment
"I look around the shul and see some of our boys, and I note that there are dozens of chassidishe boys around who are maintaining the level of chassidishkeit. They will surely become shluchim of the rebbe."
What is wrong if they get employment that does not involve shluches.
Was YCBR setup for all to become shluchim.
How times have changed.Read Chabad history on how the Mittler Rebbe suceeded with the Russian Government to get tracts of land (White Pale of settlements) and become agriculturists.His chassidim could have gainful livelihood without depending on others for handouts.
Maybe to many people depend on handouts and this puts terrible strain on the financial resources of the school.Of course those who are honest and need help should continue to receive what they require.
They all do not have to be shluchim or Rabbis--but at the very least they should be frum! Especially the ones who come from frum families--they shouldn't be going frie like they have been over the past decade!
ReplyDeleteAnd to insighter-for certain no one in YCBR has received any letters from the Rebbe since 1992. Since then, and maybe frome before then, the school has betrayed the Rebbe's wishes.
To insighter!
ReplyDeleteOn any Motzei Shabbos just drive around Carlisle street, Chapel street and the discos in town and you would cry with me!
If people like Insighter wake up from their dreams of denial we can start the healing process.
ReplyDeleteNO NEED TO CRY- YOU CAN HAVE A HIGH TOGETHER WITH THEM!
ReplyDeleteWhere are the parents please do not tell me that the Haskafos of the school is what is allowing children to go cruising down Chapel st. In America there used to be an ad on each T.V. station..."It's Ten O'clock Do You Know Where Your Children Are" Parents really need to learn how to say NO. The school can make an effort to instill more Chassidishkeit but it will and should not ever replace wishy washy parents who are afraid of their children!
ReplyDeleteMany parents in the community are afraid of their children. I would even say the majority. They are afraid of pushing kids to much towards Yiddishkeit, lest they rebel. Peer pressure is so great that not letting your child "hang out" Saturday night (I use that term deliberately) in some peoples mind could send the kid off the edge.
ReplyDeleteThis is why we need community wide standards. The community as a whole needs to get together and agree on certain policies and standards.
These undesirable behaviors can be for the most part eradicated, if, and only if, we all agree to abide by a set of rules and then enforce them.
For this to happen, we need leadership. And THAT is the biggest problem we have.
AE - why are you intimidated into deleting comments about other communities yet persist in promoting and allowing here all the most outrageous streotyping and rechilus about Chabad for all and sundry to read!!!
ReplyDeleteIf it is wrong (and it is) to have comments about other communities then it is wrong to allow derogatory comments about our children and our mosdois and, by implication, our Rebbe!
Shame on you and shame on all those washing dirty linen in public like this - and particularly those who are obviously posing as members of Chabad in order to feed the rechilus and loshen horo gainst our community. There is NO justifiction whatsoever for it as absolutely nothing has come of all these discussions and you are all fooling yourselves if you think that anything constructive and pratical will come from it. Ask Shoshnah Silcove how many replies she has had to her call for action that she posted alomst a week ago now.
The only things that could in any way justify a site like this is purely POSITIVE suggestions about improving ourselves and our Moisdois. But such positive talk and inspiration has been few and far between.
Shame on all those posting and encouraging this site particularly Bein Hametzorim when we should be increasing Ahavas Yisroel, not indulging in rechilus and loshen horo (and remember loshen horo is still ossur even when we justify it by saying it's true.)
This site has done more harm to Chabad and other religious communities in Melbourne than any other public episode that I can remember.
Shame on you all.
And no I am not from the PTB. so don't start answering that I am simply trying to quash discussion. I also have kids in our schools and would like to see many improvements. Aval lo zu haderech!!!!
responsible person,
ReplyDeleteI am with you! It is so easy to blame the school! WHen our children stray, the pain is so intense, there is a need to lash out, and lay blame. In truth, no ONE thing can lead to a child going off the path, there are a million pieces to the puzzle. Lets take a step back, recognize the complexity of the situation, and rather than lash out, work together towards a solution. SUre, the school should be part of this, as too, the home, the youth groups, the peers, the wider community....Drinking in the community must not only stop, but be frowned upon. WHen adults walk around at a kiddush, or still in davening time, pouring whiskeys, people should show disapproval, rather than slapping the "pourer" on the back. Perhaps we need more youth centres, to encourage the kids that need to "straY' a more kosher alternative to the current hangouts. Maybe we need more mashpias in the community for these young at risk kids, who can pick up a potential problem before it becomes worse, and maybe we need a safe haven for those who have "fried out", so that with love and encouragement, they will find their way back home?
Kids at risk is not jsut a Melbourne problem, nor just a YBR problem, lets utilise and expand on the resources in the community to work together, rather than bicker.
I am obviously dealing here with blinkered people. All I said was that, we have so much positive going on, and yet you harp on the negative.Of course not all will become shluchim.But they are still a pleasure to watch as they discuss with their friends divrei torah and chassidus. I'd like to know what on earth is that person doing travelling around Chapel St and Carlisle st? Does he/she also take a sha'aveh licht to do bedikas chometz in those places? Furthermore, when I suggested to look around the shul regarding the parents, I was trying to impart the idea that some of their behaviour sets a poor example of what being chassidish is all about.
ReplyDeleteTo sue.d. I say.. I wonder when you will actually start the healing process...surely rechilois and loshon horoh is not the medicinal procedure for healing.
Denial , indeed! I haven't heard one positive comment from those complaining, only charachter bashing.Time to get a life and do something positive and concrete. Everyone has the ability to be a PTB in thier own 4 cubits. So go and DO something.
Feh !!!!!
To insighter
ReplyDeleteMaybe you are the blinkered people! You see only what you want to! There are problems and these problems will never be fixed if we pretend they don't exist. To bury your head in the sand and sing your merry tune when a spiritual holocaust is happening will only continue the plague!
Yes we have some positives but we must not forget the rest. Every neshomo is important so let's stop patting ourselves on the back and accept we have a major problem. Once we recognise this we can try to work towards a solution.
To shove innocent neshomos under the carpet will not make our problem go away.
I cannot blame the home when we all know of examples of children being Mechalel Shabbos (and worse)that come from the most beautiful chassidishe homes. Homes that behave exactly as the Rebbe wants. No TV, no papers, no magazines, no internet! So why blame the home.
ReplyDeleteTo insighter,
ReplyDeleteIf you would be looking for your 16 year old daughter you would also go everywhere.
Or maybe you would stay home and continue to live in Noddyland. Keep your head buried in the sand, live in denial and I wish you lot's of luck as you sure need it!
To disgusted.
ReplyDeleteDo you really want to badmouth other communities. Unfortunately I am not interested and I doubt if others are. This blog was made to give the Lubavitch community a forum to discuss serious problems we have with SOME of our children. If this doesn't concern you bye bye!
Dear Disgusted,
ReplyDeleteIf there is a leak in the roof of another house it doesn't interest me, but if my roof leaks I want to know all about it in order to rectify the problem.
Why should we worry about problems in other communities, when we have plenty of our own. Don't fool yourself that we can keep it hidden as the whole town knows everything before we do.
Annoymous and wake up- Either you are stupid or intentionally misrepresenting my words.
ReplyDeleteI am not advocating attacking other communities. I am saying that just like it is recognised that other communities should NOT be attacked we should not be attacking and defaming our own community in public like this.
Of course you fix your roof but you don't do that by climbing naked out on to the roof in full view of all your neighbours.
If you have no fear of the Aibishter and don't care about the dinnim of Loshen Horoh and Rechilus, then at least honestly make a Din VeCHeshbon ias to if you would honestly be willing to identify yourself to the Rebbe as the author of the type of loshon horah and rechilus about his moisdois that are on this site.
There are ways of achieving change without making it a Mitzvah Haboh BeAveirah.
I know the PTB is insincere and does not care about the kids frying out, only their own agenda. How do I know? It's simple. We know they hear parents complain about these issues, and we know they are reading this blog along with everyone else. And yet not one of them has expressed any alarm that even one child should G-d forbid, be going off the derech.
ReplyDeleteImagine a real sincere Rabbi or school adminstrator whose concerned for the kids' welfare with an emes. He reads this blog or hears parents complaining about kids having these problems and takes it to heart. It bothers him that the shcool is failing some children, and it doesn't matter how many kids are affected. Woudn't he immediately move heaven and earth to save the neshomas at risk? Wouldn't someone who is dedicated to the Rebbe's inyanim scream for changes, and turn the school upside down just to save even one single child?
And if the school officials do not have such dedication, then why should we accept them as caretakers of our childrens' chinuch?
But instaed all we are are hearing from PTB supporters is apologetics. We hear you can't blame the school only the home is at fault. Even if that were the case, wouldn't the school then have a responsisibilty to help the parents gudie their children at home? But while they say it is the home's fault, they still do not offer anything to help us.
Then we hear that it is the darkness before Moshiach. Oh well, if that isn't a defeatist attitude I don't what is.
Then we actually hear people really make a twist of the truth by telling us the schools are exactly as the Rebbe instructed them to be. Which Rebbe are they taling about? The Reformerdike Rebbe? Certainly not my Rebbe.
All of this shows us that the PTB and their apologists don't care enough about the neshomas out there who are being led astray by the day. It doesn't bother them. One child more or one child less, who cares? As long as their jobs and their nepotism is nice and secure, they can shake a stern finger at this blog and accuse it of spreading bad publicity, of being negative, of spreading loshon hora, of going against Rabbi Groner etc., etc., etc.
These people are so phony and transparent.
Oy vey Yank and 770. Your attitudes are going to get us very far. I still say be your own PTB in your own daled amois.If we keep on accusing each other of being blinkered, we may actually bump inot each other, and still do nothing about it. Just imagine that the Rebbe is reading this exchange, and how he is looking at it from above. And I mean do that sincerely, without and falsness to yourselves. I doubt that he is deriving much nachas from all this.
ReplyDeleteYet, I am sure there is going to be a response from someone that befits the real title chossid, and will try to show that the Rebbe is proud of these attitudes.
You will not achieve any positive lasting results from a Mitzvah HaBoh BeAveira. If you are serious and not just a mkischievous stirrer then you will need to find and propose methods of reform that do not rely on rechilus, loshen horo and public Chilul Lubavitch that is the only result so far from the vast majority of copmments on this site.
ReplyDeleteDisgusted, I am so not disgusted with you. I say to you . Amen!
ReplyDeletegefilte fish
ReplyDeleteHow do you know that the PTB isn't upset. How do you know that plans are not being made to go ahead with some reforms and decisions that will benefit our Moisdos? Is the blog the only way they can legitimately do something. Please do not think that they are so evil and corrupt that the worries of so many parents wouldn't bother them. I am sure plenty of discussion is happening and isn't that diasappointing to you who is so obviously looking for a good online brawl.
I hope you realise my last comment was not aimed at you insighter, it was aimed at gefilte fish - who should rather have chosen the name gehakte leber because that's what he and his cronies are publicly making out of lubavitch in Melbourne
ReplyDeleteProgress report:
ReplyDeleteI just got a call from a friend who told me to look at this commentary.
To all of you who keep saying nothing positive will comn from this blog: I get the feeling that is what you want. You do not have enough rachmanas about these problems and you only want to keep the negativity going by putting down those of us here on this blog who are fed up enough to firstly, ackowledge and discuss our problems, and secondly, to do something about them. So, you negative people can keep being as negative and hopeless as you want while we get to work.
responsible person said the following about the PTB,
"Please do not think that they are so evil and corrupt that the worries of so many parents wouldn't bother them. I am sure plenty of discussion is happening and isn't that diasappointing to you who is so obviously looking for a good online brawl"
Look, this situation has gotten so out of hand for so many years that it doesn't matter if they are discussing it or not. Meanwhile the PTB has made no attempt to coommunicate with the parent body, nor have they made any visible efforts to address these issues, so most of us get the message that they don't give a hoot! And if they do give a hoot, they are not capable of doing anything about it.
I have received several emails from individuals who wish to start some concrete action. These people will remain anonymous for now. I am screening each person on private email exchanges and determing their veracity and committment level.
Will keep you all posted.
And remember, talk is cheap (and so is blogging).
sds@iprimus.com.au
Disgusted. That's why I said that I am not disgusted at you. and therefore Amen on what you said.The more positive and constructive comments, the better. V'hama'aseh, hu ho'iker!
ReplyDeleteI think the Rebbe will appreciate this Gefilte fish. It has a yiddishe taam!
ReplyDeleteSome would rather let our children have a spiritual death as ling as we have a good image on the web etc.
But they forget if we do nothing there will be very few left to give a good image to!!
Insighter. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad. You worry what the Rebbe will think if he reads this blog. Wake up from your sleep. The Rebbe knows exactly what is going on. Which children daven, which don't keep shabbos etc. etc.
ReplyDeleteDo you really think the Rebbe needs to get his information from here. This is only important for us to open our eyes and do something before it is too late!
To responsible Person- MAZEL TOV that the PTB are finally doing something. 5 years too late, but better late than never. It is only sad for those families who have already lost their child/children. But we all daven for their return.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the PTB will call a general meeting where we can all exchange ideas and get a full update. I believe this blog should take the credit that finally something is being done to save the future generation of chabad here in Melbourne.
who is ptb and exactly what action do u think will fix the situation
ReplyDeleteSue. If a child is suffering a spiritual death then you need to act on it immediately, that's what I meant by becoming PTB in your own 4 cubits. and the same applies to 770. I don't worry about how the Rebbe percieves all this.. He can and will take care of the situation in his own way. I worry about you and your ilk. I don't want an answer from you on the following because Yoda inish benafshoi. But what are YOU doing "constructively' other than just "opening your eyes"? Furthermore, contrary to what you may think, we should always consider before we do anything, as to how the Rebbe would look at it. This the Rebbe already stated at a frebrengen in the early yud's, referring to the Frierdiker Rebbe. For some it is more effective that even Einey Hashem ! The ultimate question still remains. What are you and you and you and you, doing L'ma'aseh bepoyel to save any spiritual deaths???? G-d Forbid!
ReplyDeleteTo AE!
ReplyDeleteYOUR HEADLINE IS apology accepted!
I can't find the apology?
I'll believe you Shoshanah that something positive has come from the mostly disgusting and destructive discussion that has taken place on this site when I see the names of the volunteers you claim to have contacted you and their actual constructive plans. Meantime, I say again that I personally do not think that anything positive can come as a result of the breach of halochah and mentchlichkeit seen here on this site.
ReplyDeleteEven those who wish to justify what has occurred here must admit that there is no further need to rehash and rehash again the loshen horah and richilus. The points have been well and truly made. We now need to put an end to any further rechilus, loshen horah and sinas chinom masquerading here as being LShem Shamoyim.
The soton is clever and we know that he often dons a shtreilmel and kapote when he knows that full-on assault will not work . Unfortunately he certainly is succeding with such tactics here in the Chabad community in Melbourne in sowing Sinas Chinom and discord at a time when Ahavas Chinom and Ahavas Achim should be uppermost in our minds and hearts to combat the historical and contemporary tzorois that faces klal yisroel at this time.
If there is to be ANY justification for what has occured here then those responsible should stop regailing us over and over again with criticism and instead start coming up with practical suggestions for constructive workable positive plans and do something to rectify this massive chilul Lubavitch. Otherwise just keep quiet already.
RESPONSIBLE PERSON SAID
ReplyDelete"How do you know that plans are not being made to go ahead with some reforms and decisions that will benefit our Moisdos? Is the blog the only way they can legitimately do something. Please do not think that they are so evil and corrupt that the worries of so many parents wouldn't bother them. I am sure plenty of discussion is happening and isn't that diasappointing to you who is so obviously looking for a good online brawl."
It has been over a decade that we have watched our mosdos go down the drain. The PTB are not evil, just selfish and uncaring, not real warm Chassidim. Their hashkafas are way off.
And if they are working so hard to do something about it then this must as top secret as Osama Bin Laden's hiding place cause no one knows about it!
"Meantime, I say again that I personally do not think that anything positive can come as a result of the breach of halochah and mentchlichkeit seen here on this site."
ReplyDeleteDid you write this comment becuase your kavana is that you want something positive to come out of this? Are you at all interested in saving the neshomas or not? Or are you hoping we fail, and to heck with the kids?
Do you want to help us now or do you want to continue to preach to us about how bad this blog is for Lubavitch?
If you want to do something positive instead of just knocking our attmepts then my email is sds@iprimus.com.au.
If not then please stop being so 'holier than thou" routine and your email brawling.
Disgusted!
ReplyDeleteIf you would agree that until now there was an importance to highlight some issues that are cause of great concern. But it seems apparent starting from your screen name that you are the soton trying to stop a remidy to all the korbonos. Your preach of sinas chinam, Loshon Hora, shtreimel, halochah, mentchlichkeit etc. You are Holier than the holiest but before you preach about destroying that little shimmer of light to save Yiddishe Neshomos ask YOURSELF if maybe you are the one who is actually masquerading here as being LShem Shamayim. You sound to have a lot of Sinas Chinom in your tone. Ask yourself what have YOU done to stop the rot! So if you have nothing to contribute just go away and let us try to save our children. The beauty of a computer is that it has an off button.
Define a real warm chassid
ReplyDeleteDisgusted wants to see names!
ReplyDeleteBut isn't it disgusting that Disgusting won't give HIS name.He thinks he is some Rebbe or Tzaddik. Either he caqn help or stop being a spoiler and just go away.
disgusted said...
ReplyDeleteYou will not achieve any positive lasting results from a Mitzvah HaBoh BeAveira
So you are a Navi and Posek!
If you are serious and not just a mkischievous stirrer
So stopping my child from becoming a goy is being a stirrer
then you will need to find and propose methods of reform
Can I have some examples!
that do not rely on rechilus, loshen horo and public Chilul Lubavitch
There is no rechilus etc. This is your cop out to stop us improving things for our children.
You are a chilul Lubavitch trying to block us from addressing issues.
SHAME
Sure you'd like me to go away wouldn't you. Then you could continue with your destructive posts without anyone to prick your conscience.
ReplyDeleteThey actually stoned Zecharia HaNovi at this time of the year when he told them some few home truths. That's why I won't reveal my name. But it's not who says it - it's the message itself that counts and at this time it needs to be said: THERE IS NEVER JUSTIFICATION FOR RECHILUS AND LOSHEN HORAH. Period!
I am not certainly a Novi (despite my previous reference to Zechariah) but I am convinced enough to predict that, despite Shoshanah's yet-to-be-proven claims to the contrary, I repeat again that nothing constructive will come of the blatant disregard for halochah and mentchlichkeit exhibited here.
Aderaba - prove me wrong....
Disgusted, unlike you my objective is not to be proven correct or to win a debate. My objective is a mission of emes and svaing neshomalas.
ReplyDeleteBut for the record this follwoing post appears in this blog under 'One of the Highest Learning Levels -Australia"
Dovber said...
We had a bunch of people over last night and the topic was thi sblog and its contents.
One of the older Chabadniks highly praised teh Silcoves for the brave move in being Melbourne Chabad's Nachson ben Aminadav in enrolling their son in Adass.
This person told us repeatedly that the rebbe regularly quoted teh Chazal "Velo Ah Haaretz Chosid", an am haaretz cannot be a chosid. THus he said, that we 'so called ' chassidim, who send our sons to YC when the chances are that they will become very small talmidei chachomim, and never qualify for teh chossid tag.
However the Silcoves the the other Chabadniks who have followed them, will, all things being equal, have sons, lomdim and chassidim - which was always teh rebbes dearest wish.
The speaker who spent many years in chinuch here and overseas added that if you take a look at the results of YC education in teh past 50 years with thousands of graduates, you will find that except for teh early days [when ren Arel studied there] the rate of talmiudei chachomim produced is negligable - 5% in a good year!
He said that he often drops in to Adass and speaks in learning to the bachurim and yungeleit and is convinced that their standard is at least equal to the best mosdos we have in CH or Israel.
He was strongly urging us younger parents to have the guts and do what the Silcoves, Supers and others have done, before it is too late. The other [and better] option of opening a truly chassidish Chabad school will take a while - and meanwhile we will continue to produce lots more 'am-haaretz chossids'
July 31, 2005 3:04 PM
Now Mr. disgusted, stop sitting back and relshing in being correct and hoping we fail, and start caring a bit about the neshomas at stake!!
I will not discuss this further with you.
Mr Disgusting just because they stoned Zecharia Hanovi doesn't mean you have to stone us!
ReplyDeleteJ U S T R E L A X
Disgusted!
ReplyDeleteYou are not a Novi or Posek, so don't pasken shaalos and don't give us your prophecy of doom!
Shoshanah: I have not said anywhere that I hope you fail. So don't deflect the thrust of my message by misrepresenting me. Quite to the contrary. I said: "If there is to be ANY justification for what has occured here then those responsible should stop regailing us over and over again with criticism and instead start coming up with practical suggestions for constructive workable positive plans and do something to rectify this massive chilul Lubavitch."
ReplyDeleteMy criticism was regarding the way in which the call for reform and improvement has been presented. The besmirching and negative steroetyping of our children in particular has been unforgivable - especially as our children and indeed the public in general have been treated to such graphic descriptions, rechilos and loshen horo.
You want to improve things - fine. I wish you the best of luck and I will indeed be ready to join in once plans have been revealed and are shown to be constructive and practical. But I say again (and no amount of personal abuse for my raising it can change the fact) despite hearing of the misdemeanors and sins of our children and the PTB and educators and leaders of our community over and over and over again I have yet to see any positive workable suggestion as to how to impliment the changes being called for.
I am pleased to see that you will not discuss this further with me. I only hope that others will also desist from further sinas chinom, rechilos and loshen hora. Maybe Hashem will then have rachmonus on us and enable the vaccuum to be filled by discovery of positive and constructive solutions to all our problems and to those of klal yisroel in general.
Sharon, One doesn't have to be a posek to know the clearly defined dinim of loshen horoh and rechilus. One also doesn't have to be a novi to know that nothing good has ever come from a disregard for Halochah and mentchlichkeit.
ReplyDeleteForm the Rebbe (Ha Yom Yom---23rd Adar 1)
ReplyDelete“Rabbis and scholars are called the eyes of the community and the heads of the thousands of Israel. When the head is healthy the body is then also healthy”
From the Alter Rebbe:(Hayom Yom 3 Adar I)
ReplyDelete"The Mitzvah of Ahavas Yisroel extends to ayone born into the people of Israel, even if you have never met him. How much more so does it extend to EVERY member - man or woman - of the Jewish community where you live, who belongs to your own community."
Ahavas yisroel certainly means saving Jewish neshomalas, doesn't it? Ahavas yisroel certainly means who oppose saving Jewish neshomalas. Ahavas yisroel means the non-acceptance of a moribound system that is destroying a generation of the Rebbe's children, does it not?
ReplyDeleteOr does ahavas yisroel mean, in your book, that we sit back, do nothing, and let the PTB continue ruining children, ruining families, destroying Lubavitch, ruining the Rebbe's name, making a mocekry of everything that Chabad stood for?
shoshana, if when the rabbis are healthy than the community is healthy then the opposite must also be true and I think that is the case here. This community is not healthy and we should look at the root of the problem.
ReplyDeleteAgain you misrepresent me that you can then attack me and justify your position.
ReplyDeleteAhavas Yisroel certainly does not mean unwarranted libelling of people as being against saving Yidishe Neshomois or of accusing them of advocating sitting back and doing nothing when they have not advocated that at all.
Ahavas Yisroel means just that - loving "EVERY member - man or woman - of the Jewish community where you live, who belongs to your own community." No exceptions nmentioned. Certainly no exceptions based on misrepresntation and hysterical generalisation and exageration.
I thought you weren't answering me anymore, Shoshnah. At least if you decided to change your mind I would have hoped that it would be with less vitriol.
However, it looks like I'm wasting my time here. I thought that maybe at this time of bein hamtzorim my attempts to temper things with a call to stopping the rechilus and loshen horoah and to the practice of Ahavas Yisroel would be more accepted. Unfortunately not so.
May Hashem nevertheless still have rachmonus on us.
"it looks like I'm wasting my time here." wrote disgusted.
ReplyDeletethe most true thing he has written.
He calls other people's blogs vitriol, but what are his? Think he is looking in the mirror tonite?
The army has no General.
ReplyDeleteWE NEED A NEW GENERAL TO LEAD US OUT OF GOLUS
Disgusted is out of touch with reality. He thinks we exaggerate when we do not. He thinks we lack ahavas yisorel when we accuse the PTB of being responsible for the scourge of assimilation and bad Chabad chinuch they offer in the schools. Nothing could be furhter from the truth. Because of our ahavas yisroel, becuase of our love for the Rebbe and his inyanim, we cry out and speak the truth that he and others prefer not to hear.
ReplyDeleteShow us what the PTB has done to show they have an ounce of caring for these problems? Explain to us how we malign them when we say that they are negligent over the previous neshomas they are entrusted with? Isn't that the truth?
Ask the many parents who cry into their pillows each night if they feel the PTB cares or has lifted a finger to help their children who are at risk?
Just last Shabbos a mother told me that her son, who dropped out of school (YC) and Yiddishekit at aged 15 was shown not one iota of caring by the PTB. She said not once did any of the school officials lift a finger to help him come back to the fold. She said they never asked him how he was feeling, never paid him a bit of care or attention, and to this day they have never inquired of his welfare. They simply did not care less, she told me, if he was there or not. It mattered nothing to the PTB. In fact, she said that they saw him as a pain in the neck and wanted to get rid of him as quickly as possible, regardless of what would be good for him or his Yiddishkeit, because it just wasn't worth the effort for them to bother helping this poor neshima.
And there are so many more stories like that that people tell me. Another mother told me how her son was totally turned off to Yiddishkeit by the PTB in large part because one of the principles who was was cold, uncaring, domineering, and abusive.
And you preach to me from your ivory tower about ahavas yisroel? Where is yours? Where is your moral indignation, your anger at these tragedies, and at the mutlitude of them going on right in front of your eyes! Do do not wear blinders so you do not see the pain going on around you? Are you so self centered that the children of your neighbors mean nothing to you? Are you so 'holier than thou" that you ignore the pleas of mothers who cry from the oppression of their children by a PTB that cares only for appearances, worries only about getting bad publcicity, or losing fundraisers, but never shows compassion for these struggling neshomas? What kind of menchlikite is that? It is not menchlikite at all! It is a selfish uncaring attitude that you hide under the guise of holiness, in a silk kapaota, all in the name of ahavas yisroel.
I'm another person who has been appalled by some posts on this weblog. I can't see any reason for these insult. In fact, I believe them to be counterproductive. Why should anyone pay attention to these ravings about cold, heartless "powers that be" who despise the views of their own Rebbe, who divert funds to their own pockets, who care nothing for the course of Jewish education in their own school? If these allegations were to be true then how could any reform of Yeshiva / Beth Rivka succeed? It goes without saying that it would be opposed by these machiavellian figures. On the other hand, if the allegations are false (which I think ought to be self-evident) then how could you hope that to get a response from these people? Would *you* hang around t be insulted in these terms by people too cowardly to sign their name?
ReplyDeleteI can see lots of ways in which Yeshiva / Beth Rivka sould be improved. The school needs better training for its teachers, and more work done on its curriculum. I firmly believe that students could achieve much better results in every subject without spending a minute extra in class. Of course, a program like this takes time, effort and at least some money. Purely as a matter of interest, how many people reading this would have the time to spend (say) four hours a week working on educational matters? This is a substantial commitment (and I'm not absolutely sure I can make it myself). None the less, it's probably the minimum useful commitment that could be made by a volunteer. This educational work might be fund raising, preparing educational materials, or tutoring. I'm just asking for something of a show of hands, not a binding commitment. If many people respond then perhaps the Yeshiva / Beth Rivka committee will agree to work with the volunteers, but even in the absence of this cooperation a great deal of good could be done.
Tzemach Atlas said it-Glasnost is the only solution. But we don't have a Gorbachov.
ReplyDeleteDisgusted and Chaya please take out a chofetz chaim and show me where do you find that it is loshon hora to highlight a problem that exists when no names are mentioned.
ReplyDeleteIf your little boy writes a four letter word on the wall you wouldn't tell your spouse or the teacher because it is loshon hora, sinas chinom or rechillus? The fact
is Disgusted has no idea of the laws of loshon hora, this is only a red herring to justify the position of Disgusted. Is Disgusted really so careful with his own Loshon Hora as he tries to misuse this Halochah. His tone is full of sinas chinom!
The Chofetz Chaim states clearly that to mentiom problems such as these are permitted as it is called TOALAS. Toalas needs 3 conditions to make it permisible. All 3 condition are met here. So Mr Disgusted may I assure you nobody has any sinas chinom, nobody is breaking any Halochos. And finally in such cases which is definetly Pikuach Nefesh most probally many Halochos could be broken after a Rav is consulted.
STOP MISQUOTING HALOCHA FOR YOUR OWN POLITICS!
Kids leave Chassidishe lifestyles
ReplyDeletebecause you ram our brains with
everything about The Rebbe.
The Rebbe said this and the Rebbe said that.The trouble is you really do not know what the Rebbe said.
Kids want to be treated as kids and not brainwashed.They have their own minds and need to be guided by their families and not told the Rebbe says...
How do I know ?
I was one of those people who had Chaassidihkeit rammed down my throat and I walked away.Chabad had 7 Rebbeim not one and each one was special.I freid out , but soon saw the EMES and as returned under my own terms.I am not a chossid.I am a jew first, who happens to follow minhag Chabad.
Ahavas Yisroel
If the schools had financial transparancy it would stop allegations of fraud, mismanagemet and missapropriation. Why don't they open their books and that will make them all clean in everyone's eyes? Each year Mizrachi give all the members a full financial report.
ReplyDeleteIf the schools had financial transparancy it would stop allegations of fraud, mismanagemet and missapropriation. Why don't they open their books and that will make them all clean in everyone's eyes? Each year Mizrachi give all the members a full financial report.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Halchos of Loshan Hora DISGUSTED broke the Halocha at least 8 times!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJoe your suggestions have a lot of merit and B"H are positive.
ReplyDeleteIn fact I believe that it is a very practical solution to some of the issues in the school. At first glance it would seem to me that parents who are unable to pay full tuition and are qualified (however that may be decided) could be asked to volunteer to do remedial work with the children. It appears to me that this would be one positive way that things could be improved.
Oh Joe, by the way, I completely disagree with your first paragraph. :)
ReplyDeletelevi said,"Why should anyone pay attention to these ravings about cold, heartless powers that be" who despise the views of their own Rebbe, who divert funds to their own pockets, who care nothing for the course of Jewish education in their own school? If these allegations were to be true then how could any reform of Yeshiva / Beth Rivka succeed?"
ReplyDeleteYou obviously have not had firsthand experience with them.
All those reading please start sharing your experiences with the PTB and the stories of your kids so people like Levi will come to see we have a problem here with the PTB. It is hard to explain to someone like Levi who has not been a victim of them. Levi, the PTB many times in the past succesfully worked to destroy all efforts to reform or even set up competition.
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ReplyDeleteChaya - while I understand your frustration and honestly feel for you I am reticent to allow people to tell their stories here. I would rather this forum be used for positive change than rehashing the negative things that we have experienced.
ReplyDelete(I let Shoshana Silcove tell of her experiences as she posted under her own name - and is prepared to take the flak.)
Disgusted-
ReplyDeleteI think you are 100% correct.
FACT # 1. Alot of the people on this blog are clearly not Lubavitchers and are posing as disgruntled lubavitchers thus finding a creative way to slander Chabad.
To these people I say - Give it up. Chabad is a superpower here in Melbourne and we will continue to thrive with the Rebbe's kochos with or without your loshon horah.
Fact #2 most of the Lubavitch contributors to this site are kids (it is obvious since there are a lot of very immature comments,). The rest are the select group of well known complainers from within the Chabad community- everybody knows who they are. They have now found another medium to transmit their cronic negativity. They are also clearly using multiple names to make it seem like they are a force to reckon with, but one can see it's the same few people.
To these people , I say - Go do something positive with your life for a change. No one cares about your constant whinging. Go get a life or move to a different community.
FACT #3. Most normal Lubavitchers here in Melbourne have not even heard of this site, and if they have, they would not care to look at it. I myself only found it because my neighbor, who is not a Lubavitcher, informed me of it. I have not heard anyone in my (chabad) shul talk about it nor have I heard it from anyone from Anash.
TO THE FEW NORMAL, MAINSTREAM LUBAVITCHERS WHO MAY HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THIS SITE, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE YOU ARE TALKING TO ARE NOT EVEN FROM OUR COMMUNITY. DON'T FALL INTO THE TRAP. YOU MAY HAVE LEGITIMATE ISSUES, EVERY COMMUNITY DOES, BUT THIS IS NOT THE PLACE!
10/10 to try to find a way to shut people up.
ReplyDeleteIt might work for you but the neshomos of our children will be on you! As long as you can sleep at night after trying to silence those who have been ignored for too many years!
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ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard what happened this past year in c.h. with 15 girls getting kicked out of beis rivkah? Do you think that the problem of kids fraiying out is only in our community? Times are changing its hard to stay motivated with out a physical leader. Kids/bochurim all over the world are facing difficult choices and chinuch in the school isn't our main issue -unless it is the chinuch in every (Lubavitch) school world wide.
ReplyDeleteMy opinoin is that there should be more role models/shluchim with higher standards and good connection to the kids. One Moishe Kahn is not enough. More young married people who have gone through y.c. should get involved with the students and show them there is more to being frum than getting yiddishkiet shoved down their throats.
Good Luck to shoshana and anyone else who will hopefully make a difference -its about time.
and don't let anyone knock you b/c it shows you are already accomoplishing something!
To see the opposition to this blog proves it is a noble thing. The Yetzer Hora doesn't want to allow these issues addressed. He has had a free hand until now so the satan will fight Shoshana and all those who care about your unfortunate children. But keep up your campaign. HAZORIM BEDIMA BRINA YIKTZORU. If you plant with sweat you will sow with joy. What comes hard will succeed.
ReplyDeleteBRACHA V'HATZLACHA for the sake of the next generation. Don't forsake your kids for a little kovod and image.
You don't like the message then shoot the messenger.
ReplyDeleteI have heard it all before, the personal attacks on me, the minimizing and denial of our problems, the excuses,on and on ad nauseau.
To those of you who can't handle reality, I am sorry if I disturb you from your slumber and I daven that HaKodesh Baruch Hu protects you and your children from all this tsuris.
For those of you who say it is just as bad in CH, I do not agree. I have travelled there many times over the past eight years and have friends there. CH still has a Chassidishe standard that we do not have here in Melbourne. Kids are going off the derech there but they at least still know who to look towards for Chassidishe hashkafas whereas here, we are far behind them in this area.
And to those of you who use the argument that 'it is the same in CH it's not just happening here" I say you are the ones being negative and defeatist. What you meant is that if it is happening in CH then we just throw up our hands in defeat and give up? What could be more negative than that?
So call me a whinger, I have been called worse by those who disagree with me. And I will continue to whinge until the sleeping awake because it hurts me to see the tragedy before us, and I cannot and refuse to remain silent while almost an entire generation is lost.
I thank G-d I have solved my own problems with my own child, and I have no vested interests in this at all. In fact, I get lots of flak for it. But that is a small price to pay for standing up for the Rebbe's inyanim.
I hope and daven others will follow suit.
A boat had a hole in it. Disgusted quietly covered the hole with a newspaper to ensure nobody knows about it, as not to cause Loshon Hora. The boat with all its passengers sank!
ReplyDeleteAnother boat had a hole in it. SS yeld out to all about the danger. All got to work to repair the hole. The boat and its passengers were saved.
To Aussie Echo!
ReplyDeleteYou accepted the apology. Could you please show us the apology, as I'm not convinced that you received one?
To the past anonymous:
ReplyDeleteplz stop crying over spilt milk. What difference does it make? How will it save your kids from fraiying out?
sue d put it beautifully!
ReplyDeleteInstead of Putting poor parents down for searching for their 16 year old daughters at hang outs including city discos, maybe we should make a roster of parents every Motzei Shabbos to drive around these places to try to stop children hanging out at such terrible places. And if DISGUSTED or his mates scream so be it!
"FACT #3. Most normal Lubavitchers here in Melbourne have not even heard of this site, and if they have, they would not care to look at it. I myself only found it because my neighbor, who is not a Lubavitcher, informed me of it. I have not heard anyone in my (chabad) shul talk about it nor have I heard it from anyone from Anash"
ReplyDeleteActually, quite a lot of lubavitchers and non lubavitchers are aware of this site and read it...however most view it comically and read it for a laugh and a little gossip, following the 'soap opera' and drama of the passionate poster's postings...
Are you really serious that we have frum girls going to discos Motzei Shabbos without their parents knowing where they are.
ReplyDeleteDo you know who your children are talking to on MSN ?
I have a daughter close to that age.In my house ,I want the truth on where my daughter is going out to.We show respect to each other .Although I may not like where she wants to go to , I sit down and listen.If it is a potential danger, one rule
my way or the highway.
There is hope,I check who my daughter is conversing with on MSN.We do not lve in Melbourne,however there are some very nice chassidishe boys who chat on MSN ,with good values and yes their parents know who they are talking to.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteFACT #3. Most normal Lubavitchers here in Melbourne have not even heard of this site, and if they have, they would not care to look at it.
Actually, quite a lot of lubavitchers and non lubavitchers are aware of this site and read it
SORRY I DON'T FOLLOW YOU??
who's normal?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous did I understand you correctly. You have a daughter around 16 who is conversing with nice chassidishe boys on MSM.
ReplyDeleteOr have I misunderstood you?
In case anyone missed this earlier, how many people reading this weblog have the time to spend (say) four hours a week working on educational matters? This is a substantial commitment but it's probably the minimum useful commitment that could be made by a volunteer. This educational work might be fund raising, preparing educational materials, or tutoring. I think that a group of people who made this commitment would be able to significantly help Yeshiva / Beth Rivka.
ReplyDeleteMir Yam,
ReplyDeleteYes I do.They all say Gut Shabbos on Erev Shabbos and Gut Vocht on Motzei Shabbos nearly every week.
If that is the worst thing they ever do ,I have no issues.I did a check on several of the boys and they are good kids.From what i have seen they have mutual respect for each other.
"...however most view it comically and read it for a laugh and a little gossip"
ReplyDeleteHow sad, that the Lubavitch community make such fools of itselves in public, with no self respect.
The fact is that its not as simple as that. There are people who like to see Chabad make itself into a joke. They say "You see! chabad is falling apart! soon they will self destruct like they did in Sydney and then we can finally rid ourselves of them so WE can finally become the dominant force in Melbourne Jewry! Hooray for Aussie Echo, you are a Legend!!!!
SORRY ANONYMOUS #1.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe a 16 year old girl conversing on MSM with an older boy is a very chassidishe thing at all. Usually it starts on MSM but humans are humans and the relationship doesn't stay on MSM. Chassidishe girls should have better priorities than at the age of 16 to be communicating with boys.
If this is not the foundation of a chassidishe child what is?
Yo anonymous.
ReplyDeleteThis blog is no danger to Lubavitch. The danger is children of good families falling by the wayside. Anyone can write anything on the web and it will hurt no one at all. What gives us a bad (terrible) name is the behaviour of some of our youth. The religous behaviour of our children will make us or break us.
Watch people laughing when they see a teenager with studs, fluro hair, drugged out with a girl looking no better whose father is a mashpia!
THIS IS THE ONLY PROBLEM. nothing else. The facts are out there, they cannot be hidden.
Not this blog.
Chabad is not falling apart. It will never fall apart. The momentum of the spiritual force the Rebbe put into motion is the emes and can never be stopped.
ReplyDeleteChabad is, however, going through an extremely difficult period of transformation. We have lost our leader. It has been eleven years without him.
But, the Rebbe in his holiness and genius, set up Chabad so that it can withstand this difficult time. We are being tested and with G-d's help, and the Rebbe's help, we will overcome and be victorious.
I believe Chabad will arise transformed like a phoenix out of the ashes. Each and every one of us are needed to have mesiras nefesh for the Chabad ideals.
Like the Rebbe told us, he has done everything he can, now the rest is up to us, and that means me and you.
Ad Mosai!
You Lubavitchers don't get it.
ReplyDeleteYou are making fools of yourselves, in front of everyone, in front of the whole world.
if you were so worried about your children you should keep your issues and complaints within your own community, not hang them out in public on the WWW. You think Adass don't have issues? Every community does. they just have a little self respect.
Anonymous, I feel lots of hate in your message. What's your problem?
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous #1 the one Mir Yam was talking to I think you have the wrong blog. We are trying to rectify the problem not justify it. Is it o.k. to you for girls to talk to chassidish boys if they are saying gut shabbos?!
ReplyDeleteanonymous! As you are not a Lubavitcher you will never understand the pain of loosing a child. You will never know with how much patience many tried quietly to have owe issues recognised and addressed. You will never know what garbage our children oick up in the school yard.
ReplyDeleteSo PLEASE let us solve OUR issues in the only way possible. We have enough headaches without people like you giving us more. I'd rather be seen as a fool and keep my family together than continue as over the past years.
LOST CHILDREN AND STILL FOOLS!!
At least Chabad has the guts to discuss their feelings ,even if on a blog.The more Kops we get together,may lead to solutions that will help the community. Sweeping issues under the carpet is dangerous,we have a problem with kids freing out,At least we are honest to admit it does occur in the community and there is genuine concern that we need to help and get the right derech.
ReplyDeleteIf you think this site is Loshon Hora and gives us a bad name believe me it is the opposite! People have been writing with a genuine concern and mentioning very, very little. What has been mentioned is only the tip of the iceberg. The problems are much worse! If we ignore it the bubble will burst and the Jewish News etc. will be full of some of the tragedies.
ReplyDeleteDo you want to read about Rape, Shoplifting, assault, fraud, drug trafficking??
ReplyDeleteThere is so much back and forth on this comments page - i think someone should recap what the issue is exactly. Is there an argument as to if there is a problem, or just whether there needs to be more done to rectify it? I believe it is the latter. If so, suggestions on how to combat the problem would logically be the only comments needed.
ReplyDeleteI also think there is something very wrong with boys and girls communicating with each other on MSN, or any other venue, be it SMS, chat sites, or the good old fashioned telephone.
ReplyDeleteChassidishe teens should be segregated completely, and we as parents must make sure they have no means of meeting.
I am shocked at how many people are not careful when they invite Shabbos guests. Often they invite teen boys and girls to the same meal. This should not be accepted practice, as it is not in other Chassidishe communities.
To anonymous before we get down to real tachlis we should kindly ask all thise spoilers who keep trying to silence those who have real concerns and are finally trying to do something positive rather than wait another 10 years for the PTB. How many more children do these censors want to bury?
ReplyDeleteI am shocked to see that parents cannot see the danger of teenage girls and boys corresponding. These children are as Arafat was a Zionist!
ReplyDeletesue d, why don't we just ignore the spoilers? I think many of them are lackeys sent by the PTB. Who cares what they write? They do not have the best interests of the kids at heart.
ReplyDeleteSorry!
ReplyDeleteI LEFT OUT A LINE
.......These kids are as chassidish as Arafat was a zionist!!
My apologies
Shoshana,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you do in smaller communities,have no communication
between jewish teenagers and an shabbos table with no guests.
Perhaps in smaller communities it could be a problem, but if you do have teen boys and girls at the same meal, know you are taking a risk and ask yourself if the risk is worth it or not. I would say you need to ask a Rav for guidance and each circumstance may be different, but as a general rule segregation between the genders, teens and adults, is the preferable norm. And for sure in Melbourne the community is large enough so that separation does not mean not having guests.
ReplyDeleteTo 770,
ReplyDeleteYour comments are derogatory,this blog is read by people all around the country.I live in a smaller community where frum jewish teenagers talk to each after shul and where BA and Lubavitch children mix on Shabbos afternoon
and may even learn together.Put things into context ,ideas from outsiders may help you in Melbourne.Goods things may come out of this.It is still a free country to express one's opinion isn't it ?
Shoshana,
ReplyDeleteOur Lubavitch Rabbi in my community allows it and sees no risk. The teenagers even have shabbos lunch in his home where boys are one side,girls on the other.We have no problems and everything is under strict control of the the Rabbi and Rebbetzin.
I will not continue on this path as it is pertinent to our community and not a useful in Melbourne.
I never gave much thought to smaller communities vis-a-vis the issue of mixed gender gatherings. As I said above, a competent Rav could guide you, but in Melbourne, a large community, there is no excuse for mixed teen gatherings of any sort.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 6.09am today, said: "15 girls were kicked out of Beth Rivka this year". Is this true? At end of year YBR will put an advt in AJN boasting of all their "top" students. Twisting the statistics to show results better than the other jewish schools!
ReplyDeleteWe must PETITION jewish schools - either don't boast falsly or tell us how many were expelled, or failed or wanted suicide because they can't live up to the rediculous advt.
I believe a letter went out last year from the new director of o.c. asking the community not to invite bochurim when they have girls from o.c. isn't that what is being discussed? How can you say it is all right when you were asked not to?
ReplyDeletePetttion you have to read all of what I said that was in CROWN HEIGHTS
ReplyDeleteWe need to PETITION the Crown Heights Chabad community to find out the real reason! 15 girls are expelled from Beth Rivka? Would the Rebbe approve? Were they beyond hope? What happened to Uforatzto? Were will these neshomas end up? Will the School Ties magazine tell you "where are they now"?
ReplyDeleteChabad will produce glossy magazines to tell you how many new Chabad houses were opened around the globe! Will they include how many students were expelled around the globe?
Something tells me it wasn't for higher percantages in vce
ReplyDeleteSo, about this idea of volunteering each week to work on improving Yeshiva / Beth Rivka, any takers?
ReplyDeleteGood Luck Joe...the people on this blog don't want to put their money where their mouth is, this is so much more fun. Why do anything when complaining about the PTB and its lackeys is so much more satisfying???
ReplyDeleteAll I said that boys and girls communicating in their teens caaot be chassisim. I do not say is it is allowed or not as I do not know the paticular circumstances. Same you caanot mix with BA and be called a chosid.
ReplyDeleteA chosid is someone on a higher level than what is permitted. And as Arafat was not a Zionist any teenager who communicates for fun with the opposite sex is not a chosid.
I am not critisixing anyone but tou can't have the cake and eat it to!
WWW or a blog is not a place for this venue for many reasons.
ReplyDeleteAny one who adds to this public WWW or blog by writing or contributes in anyway to this forum is responsible for the wrath of G-D in general and also specifically for a place in gehonim for him/her self(in addition to the severe punishment that Hashem might bestow on him/her self and family).
Dont be so "smart" with your writings.
Dont write!
Its not worth the suffering you will bring upon yourself and family !
Hope you all have a easy fast on Tishe B'av
Which Lubavitcher Rabbi would allow Lubavitcher chassidim to communicate between girls and boys using MSN etc.
ReplyDeleteI doubt if any!
Anyone not understanding why girls and boys can't mix, doesn't understand what chassidus is all about.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMr anonymous, in your Gehonim will I get front stalls?
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to those who try to bully and threaten in the name of Hashem, those who are trying to stop the 'shmad'?
If boys and girls would be totally segregated it would solve many of our problems.
ReplyDeleteTell me all about it. (I nearly became a buba under 40!
ReplyDeleteAd Mosa,
ReplyDeleteWake up !
My children tell me up to 50% of kids with MSN at home are conversing with the opposite sex.
They have even shown me who is on MSN.The names would shock you , many of the fathers are Rabbis and many are from very chassidishe homes.This is factual not a scare tactic.
From a parent who knows who his children talk to on MSN
>Anyone not understanding why girls and boys can't mix, doesn't understand what chassidus is all about.
ReplyDeleteSurely Chassidus is about the derech of the Baal Shem Tov. Tznius is part of Judaism generally.
Joe - I agree with your idea of volunteers helping out in the schools. It is a good suggestion which will have a positive impact on those being helped as well as the helper.
ReplyDeleteHow do you propose organising this? Maybe if you post an email address people can get in touch with you directly.
The laws of Tznius are far more stringent by chassidim than by orthodoxy generally. To be on a higher level of kedushah and Tahara starts by not mixing with the opposite sex. Mikvah etc comes after the basics.
ReplyDeleteIf any Chabad Rabbi can tell me that you can be a chosid and chat for fun with the opposite sex as teenagers, I will eat my hat!
You can't dance on 2 weddings at once.
anonymous what 770 is saying that anyone who chats on MSN does not qualify to be a chosid! Do you think he is correct. 50% using MSN doesn't make it kosher.
ReplyDeleteTo 770,
ReplyDeleteYou are 100% correct,but in the real world it just aint hsappening with teenagers. I believe this is a concern with having BR and YC so close together.How do we enforce it/
Maybe ban all boys from Empress Rd before and after school.
What about the eating establishments ?
I understand Yank,
ReplyDeleteThere is a problem at YCBR that needs to be adressed by the parents of all kids.This issue is a problem in all jewish schools
around the world
Well Adass apparently have a standard that girls and boys don't mix at all. If this is the case maybe we should send a delegation to see how they do it!
ReplyDeleteYeshivah Katana boys in Adass have clear instructions that they are not allowed to go passed certain areas during their breaks, these streets, and also the eateries, are out of bounds.
ReplyDeleteAdass boys and girls are forbidden to go to any eating establishment without their parents! AND I'M TOLD THEY DON'T!
ReplyDeleteApparently the older girls go out together as a group twice a year with adult supervision!
mir yam, that is a bit of an exaggeration, older teens do go out by themselves. But Adass does follow the halachas of shomer negiah and yichud more striclty thatn YCBR.
ReplyDeleteThe rule in Yeshivah Katana is that during school hours the boys can only ride their bikes on Atley Grove.
Of course, when the stop their secular studies, which most of them do at least partially by year nine, they have more free time from school and so you may see them around town.
But the way they have been brought up and educated is such so that it is almost unthinkable for them to want to 'hang out' in the streets and carouse.
SS do you mean that older teens go out boys with girls or only seperately?
ReplyDeleteI have never seen Adass kids hanging out around Glicks or other places!!
ReplyDeleteAdass boys and girls (teens) do not mix, ever, not in person, not at Shabbos tables, not on the phone etc. NEVER!
ReplyDeleteAdass teens do not get drunk, EVER not even Purim or Simachat Torah, NEVER!
Adass kids do not swear (not even the so-called 'softer' curse words). Swearing in Adass school means instant suspension!
Adass kids never walk around in a non-tznius-dike manner (both boys and girls)!
Adass kids never enter a cinema or a pub, NEVER!
Adass kids will not eat cholov akum, ever!
On the other hand:
Many YCBR teen boys and girls mix!
Many YCBR kids get drunk and even worse (G-d help them)!
Many YCBR kids swear like sailors!
Many YCBR kids act and dress non-tznius!
Many YCBR kids go to cinemas and pubs!
Many YCBR kids 'hang out' all hours of the night!
And I am referring to kids who are even from frum homes!
Is the above clear enough for all of you ostriches who refuse to admit the reality in front of your eyes? Have I spelled it out clearly enough for those of you deniers? Have I insulted and aggravated all of you PTB apologists?
Are the deniers and the PTB lackeys now going to make attacks on me personally now for stating these facts that are as plain as the Jewish nose on your face? Probably. Do I give a hoot? Not at all!
The Abisther knows the truth and He is the true judge of who is responsible for this tragedy in our midst.
Shoshana just join Adass and leave us alone!
ReplyDelete"Isadoire David said...
ReplyDeleteShoshana just join Adass and leave us alone!"
The above poster is using Rabbi Groner's name in English as his computer name and that is chutzpahdike to Rabbi Groner.
to isadore david, as I predicted, the personal attacks again. What does your comment have to do with the issues at hand? Nothing. Those who cannot answer use personal attacks instead as a means of avoidance.Can't deal with the message, then tough, but don't shoot the messenger.
ReplyDeleteSS said "But Adass does follow the halachas of shomer negiah"
ReplyDeleteShoshana can you please tell me where in shulchan Aruch there is hilchos negiah?
Reneber "ain am ha'aretz chasid (or chasidah)"
Re HALACHAS NEGIAH
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous, the hour is late but tommorow I will specify them to you.
In the meantime please do not touch anyone from the opposite sex aged over 12/13!
annonymous:
ReplyDelete"Isadoire David" is chutzpadik to Rabbi Groner.
I agree unless maybe Rabbi Groner wrote it!
dayan - i await your response. I am not questioning the issur, I want you to find hilchos shomer negiah!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteIt is truly sad to see this kind of dialogue during the 3 weeks. I think those on both sides of the fence need to show more respect for one another. The idea is to explain the problems in a constructive manner and possibly comment on ways to avoid or fix the problems. But to throw eggs across the fence is truly a chilul hashem and a waste of time. If you are truly concerned about your kids, then get off the internet and spend some time with them.
ReplyDeletess said:
ReplyDelete"And I am referring to kids who are even from frum homes!"
So is that Yeshivah's problem the non frum people that come to yeshivah bring down yeshivah's name. Well of course the fraiy people aren't going to be shomer negiah and will go to cinemas and pubs and will hang out at night etc.
If yeshivah would only be for lubavitcher kids then I would hope that the Yeshivah standards would go up!
We can't do anything about our kids (or rather we won't do anything that entails an efort by us) so lets bash SS.
ReplyDeleteWhat a chutzpah of her to rub into our chassidish noses how an alternative local mosad educates kids!!
That's right Shoshana, let us slumber on. We don't want to wake up to the nightmare of what we are creating for the future.
Yesm SS, we will attck you personally and horribly until you fade away and let us get on with our preferred lifestyle
Nebach, Nebach, Nebach!!!
depressed mum, I hope that you really are not depressed. If so, please get someone to help you with your situation. I am willing to try and help too, if at the very least I can get others to help you. I wish you nachas from the kinder, gezunt, and simchas!
ReplyDeleteFeel free to contact me and your confidentiality is assured.
sds@iprimus.com.au
I would like to add that although I feel strongly that YCBR needs improvement, there are still many good, frum, eidel and Chassidishe boys and girls learning there.
ReplyDeleteEven one child going off the derech is one too many and we should not easily write them off. The situation we have now should be intolerable to all of us. Why isn't it?
I do not believe a dialogue with the PTB is possible. They are not willing or capable of changing the situation.
They are insincere and will only meet or talk to people when they need something, to placate people and calm them down with phony promises, sweet talk, and empty gestures, when it is in their interest, but my experience with them is that they are like politicians and are completely self serving control freaks.
It is truly a shame that a small number of individuals such as the PTB and their cohorts are ruining things and standing in the way of so many family's goals for their children's Yiddishkeit. They like to say that their detractors are a minority when in truth they are a minority. They claim to represent the entire community yet, in reality they only represent themselves and their own narrow interests.
We are the community, you, me, and our kids are the future. It is up to us to take the bull by the horns and make our own future without allowing a small number of self centered control addicts use us to to serve their agenda.
We should get together and make our own agenda, without them, our own shule, our own school, with Chassidishe values.
I like the idea of making a closed round table disucssion on line (confidential by membership only)allowing in only those who want to roll up their sleeves and get to work. I understand this is how they began to effect change in Sydney.
Enough venting. Time to get to work. Any takers? Contact me, confidentiality assured.
sds@iprimus.com.au
Somebody suggested yesterday that there should be a roster of parents to patrol "hang out" venues on Motzei Shabbos.
ReplyDeleteI think this idea should be further persued.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletedayan - i await your response. I am not questioning the issur, I want you to find hilchos shomer negiah!
If you want to know the many issurim I am more than happy to advise you. If you are playing games and being pedantic re terminology, I frankly don't have the time!
The chassidishe families are in pain.Their values are being eroded by the mix of frum and not yet frum kids in school.You cannot always blame the non frum kids as they are not educated in tis derech or most likely do not want to be chassidisher.Not everyone want to be a chossid.
ReplyDeleteI am now convinced that YCBR needs to be split up into 2 schools that caters for the community and both sides need to be tolerant of each other.The big question is who going to pay for it?
Shoshana talks about the Adass.Nice alternative but let us be realistic,your kids are in BRYC because you do not want them in another mosdos.All lubo families need to call an extraordinary general meeting of YCBR and get the PTB to explain
how the system works and provide strategic direction for the future.
Then families can also plan whether they want to keep their kids in that environment.
The way I see it the PTB are treating the lubo community like mushrooms,in the dark and feeding them only what they want them to know.
Lubavich families it is now time to STAND UP and have a REVOLUTION
Zalman,
ReplyDeleteKids are not stupid - if you send parents to hang out venues, kids will find other venues to hang out. I think the least of our worries is when kids sit in Glicks on Motzie Shabbos, the real problems are when kids are in places we do not even know about doing drugs and so on. If it is an issue for a parent that their child is hanging out on Carlisle street they should deal with it directly with their own kids.
Dayan...
ReplyDeleteAll is said to Shoshana was that can you show me where hilchos shomer negiah is. You dediced to take the challenge on, so I await your repsonse... If you can't find it or don't know then admit it and ain am ha'aretz chosid...
orrction in first sentence
ReplyDeleteDayan...
All I said to Shoshana was that can you show me where hilchos shomer negiah is. You dediced to take the challenge on, so I await your repsonse... If you can't find it or don't know then admit it and ain am ha'aretz chosid...
There are many Halochos of Shomer Negiah. If a female doesn't know the exact terminology under what heading these important halochos are in the Sh.A., means she cannot be a chosid you would be called in Aussie lingo A SMART A---!
ReplyDeleteYes, he can't attack what she says so reverts to personal attacks. It's an old trick, how do you think the PTB stay in power? It's certainly not due to chassidishkeit or good midos.
ReplyDeleteDayan,
ReplyDeleteYou said "There are many Halochos of Shomer Negiah".
Please quote me one!
also what are you implying by "If a female doesn't know the exact terminology under what heading these important halochos"
ReplyDeleteSo it depends if you are male or female - this smell of sexism, Shoshana do you take offence to this?
PS last time i checked women are obligated to learn halochos that apply to them - so we can have equal rights on this issue!
I admit I'm not a big scholar but I do know the basics. For the issur of negiah just for starters: see Kitzur Shulchan Aruch Ch 153, sif 1. (There'd be a lot of sore backs if that din was enforced....)
ReplyDeleteSee also Kitzur Ch 152, sifim 8 and 13.
Now that's just Kitzur Shulchan Aruch. If you want we can cal for someone to go back to the sources. But I think the point's been made.
Everone,
ReplyDeleteYou need to get the train back on the tracks.Stop belittling each other.
There is a crisis out there and all you are worried about is the
source of Shomer Negia.
You all need to work together to avert a crisis.
Do you want to end up like Carmel School in Perth,where te secular courts decided that goyim have every right to attend the school.Not very pleasant when you ask your kids if their school friends are jewish.Starting actioning the PTB , ring them up continually,demand answers. Your kids futures are at stake.
Mrs. Silcove,
ReplyDeletePlease read Likutei Sichos Volume 22, pages 417-426 (10 pages) and then tell me if you agree or disagree with what the Rebbe says there.
Thank you for that reference Shneur.
ReplyDeleteThe first quote alone amply provides us with a clear answer for the situation being discussed here.
Cleary the ONLY solution is to work on improving our schools and facilities.
Yelling and criticising about problems is not going to help (See the letters quoted on the bottom of pages 423 and 425.)
Can we now try to come up with some practical and workable plans for improvement rather than the constant negativity?
If the Rebbe did not agree that new mosdos should be opened, then how do you explain all the good Chassidim who opened breakaway schools in cities all over the world? Don't they know this sicha too?
ReplyDeleteYou can always find quotes from the Rebbe's works or from the Torah itself to bolster or knock down any argument.
The fact of the matter is that in other cities there have been parents who were fed up with the existing schools and so they got together and opened new ones. Not a new concept and a very accepted choice advocated by Chassidim more learned than most of us.
By the way, I am not going to engage in nitpicking arguements for no reason. I stated my view that the only alternative is a new system, or as Tzemach Atlas calls it-Glasnost.
Nitpicking arguments with what is found in a Sicha of the Rebbe?? You're right you are only stating your point of view and the view of one Tzemach Atlas.(not exactly from Ziknei Anash)
ReplyDeleteDo not twist my words. I said you can bolster or knock down any argument by selectively quoting the Rebbe or the Torah. My view is as stated so I will not argue its clear point of view anymore. Either you wish to DO something to try and help us make new schools with real Chasssidishe values or you do not. Perhaps you are content to stay with things as they are. It is your right to choose, but do not stand in the way of others' right to choose a better Chassidic education for their children while using the Rebbe's words where it suits you, and ignoring them when it does not. I could do the same, and we would go on forever and never get anywhere as it would be an excercise in futiity. You quote and then I counter argue with another quote, and on and on and on....What's the point? It would accomplish nothing b'peol mamash.
ReplyDeleteWhat's it to you if some people want to make another school? Why should it bother you? It is not an immoral thing to do. It is not a bad thing to do. Live and let live.
Unless of course you are one of those people who feel threatened by a new school system and if so, why?
All readers should take note that this time instead of attacking me personally the anonymous blogger decided to attack Tzemach Atlas.
ReplyDeleteBut there some one real differences between Tzemach and myself as oppossed to Mr. Anonymous --WE DO NOT HIDE ANONYMOUSlY BEHIND A KEYBOARD like you do, while pretending to be so pious.
Whether Tzemach Atlas is a member of Anash or not has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of his views and whether or not his views have pros or cons.
Stick to the issues.
As I said, what is wrong if some members of Anash Melb are discontent with the present system and want to ty to make another school? Why should anyone fight that attempt? To my mind the ONLY ones who would try and thwart parents' attempts to set up a new school are those who have their own selfish vested interests at risk. What other reason could there possibly be for anyone to be against parents' right to choose for their own childrens' chinuch?
anonymous you are a stirrer and you don't have what to knock so you put words into other peoples mouths!
ReplyDeleteFirstly
from your question "Show me Hilchos Negia" you imply no such Halochos exist. This shows you are a 'kal'. As others might believe you. Shoshana never said the Haloshos come under a special section called HILCHOS NEGIA. There are halochos on the issur of Males and Females touching which every single jew ought to know.That is all Shoshana was saying nothing about the names of simonim in the Shulchan Aruch.
Now point 2!
The Rebbe said many times that bochurim should learn shulchan Aruch and get smicha. Thus we have smicha programs for males. The fact is females do not study shulchan Aruch the way males do. If this is a problem for you you can join the temple have your female Rabbi and you will have no more problems with what you call sexism in our derech.
Shoshanah I think you have introduced a "red herring" to deflect from what Shneur was really emphasising when he gave us the reference to the Rebbe's comments on this topic.
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe's comments were not introduced as rebutting the need for change or new scools WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. The Rebbe's letters quoted are ALL ABOUT KEEPING OUR CHILDREN IN CHABAD INSTITUTIONS. They also tell us that if we need to change things to make the present moisdois better then that should be done in a way of "yemin mekarevess" (as the Rebbe writes) not Smoil Docheh.
"what is wrong if some members of Anash Melb are discontent with the present system and want to ty to make another school?"
ReplyDeleteI don't think it is consistent with the Rebbe's wishes. To the best of my knowledge, the Rebbe wanted his chassidim to work within the system of shluchim he had established. I certainly agree that circumstances have changed over the past ten years, but have they changed to the extent that people with a positive outlook and who are willing to help would be turned away by Rabbi Groner? I fidn this hard to believe.
Incidentally, I don't think the school is more than half the problem. The other half is what people do out of school - and frankly, what *is* there for a teenager to do around here?
Dayan
ReplyDeleteI am a stirrer, but saddened by what has happened here with this blog.
Yes I did take the mickey out of everyone,
however the point of issue is not halacha as we have more poskim here than the Sanhedrin,but on how Chabad in Melbourne needs help.
dayan, just for the record I did not detect any sexism whatsoever in your original comments. When I studied in the seminary for balei teshuvah women, Halacha class was the least popular and certainly not a favorite of mine either. It was only when Rabbi Berel Bell taught it with alot of of his unique and entertaining humour did
ReplyDeletethe women's interest pique.
Maybe it has to do with the right-left brain differences between men and women and they way we learn? Or with the differences between us spiritually?
Anyway, I say VIVA LA'DIFERANCE!
aNONYMOUS WRITES:- dayan - i await your response. I am not questioning the issur, I want you to find hilchos shomer negiah!
ReplyDeleteANONYMOUS LATER WRITES:
Just show me one Halocha of Shomer Negiah!
Stop being a trouble maker. We have extremely important issues and no time for your little games!
Anonymous! You tried to make Shoshana into a fool but you only showed that you are the fool!
ReplyDeleteJoe is looking at things through rose coloured glasses. The whole reason for the discontent here is because the PTB in all its forms do NOT appear to want change and seem to be content with the status quo.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous
ReplyDeleteMy idea to patrol hang out areas was meant Chapel Street, and the city.
Carlisle street is not the real problem as there are plenty od Adults around!
We should not patroling our kids, we should be educating our kids so they do not need to be patroled.
ReplyDeleteI agree but easier said than done. I have been trying for 6 years!
ReplyDeleteTo my fellow balei teshuvah; the message you should give your children as they grow up is this--Tell them, "I have been frei and now I am frum and frum is better!"
ReplyDeleteI look around and watch frum adults and teens running towards the emptiness I ran away from.
I watch women ape shiksas and become slaves to fashions dictated to them by some gay designers in Paris. I watch beautiful Jewish women, who instead of relishing in being the King's daughter, cheapen and lower themselves by imitating the peasant's whore. I wish I could shake them out of their illusions.
I want to scream to save them, "Wait! Stop! I have been where you think you want to go! I have been there and done that! There is nothing out there! Nothing but emptiness and despair at the end of that journey! BE glad you are a Jew! Come back!"
Attracted by the glittering trinkets of society, these women naively believe the lies being told them about happiness and fullfillment.
Know what is at the end of that road? Want to know about the people I left behind after becoming frum and where their lives went as compared to mine?
I left behind high powered professional women who got abortions on their lunch hours only to wind up childless and alone. I left behind yuppie couples who worship at the god of modern materialism and lie awake in the wee hours of the night contemplating the meaninglessness of their busy lives. I left behind women whose husbands left them when the allure of youth waned and now they spend their nights drinking in bars looking for the love they lost. I left behind old friends who became zombies from cults, or bound to their psychiatrists couches, and those living conventional lives, all the while wondering why they feel as if something is missing, as if life passed them by.
Any of you think it is better to be frie, to be free of the obligations and constraints of the frum life? Take it from me, I have been there and done that and the initial rush of freedom quickly wears off and is replaced by bleak emptiness that people vainly try to fill and hide behind a glittering glamourous facade.
Yes, I have been frie and I am frum, and I thank G-d for saving me! Thank you Rebbe!
Tell your children that your life as a frum Jew is the best possible life to live. Tell them and believe it and let them know that they are the inheritors of life's most precious gift--the Torah.
if they get that message, they will want to be frum, won't they?
Shoshana your message is powerful and true. Yasher Koach for your honesty
ReplyDeleteShoshana,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you classify as being frei ?
Thank you Shoshana, the only problem is we don't have more like you!
ReplyDeleteWith all that is going on ,why would I want join Chabad and not let us say Biala or Visnitz ?
ReplyDeletePlease explain to me
Every group has its problems
ReplyDeleteI purposely didn’t quote what it is that the Rebbe says. I was hoping that the bloggers here would look up the letters, read the Rebbe’s words on their own, and adapt their arguments accordingly. I gave a specific reference, and a short one at that. To some who responded to my original comment in a dismisive manner, are you saying that there is no reason to look to the Rebbe’s printed sichos and letters for hadracha since they all twist the Rebbe’s words?!
ReplyDeletePhilosophically, I agree 100% with Mrs. Silcove. However, I don't wish to go against the Rebbe's words, and am thus looking for alternative explanations to what he means.
ReplyDeleteIsn't Mrs Silcove one of the few who truly respect the derech the Rebbe taught us. She is not willing to see it watered down!
ReplyDeleteWhich is why I anticipate that she will look up the Rebbe's letters herself and respond to my comment in a respectful manner.
ReplyDelete"Tell your children that your life as a frum Jew is the best possible life to live. Tell them and believe it and let them know that they are the inheritors of life's most precious gift--the Torah.
ReplyDeleteif they get that message, they will want to be frum, won't they?"
There are a number of devout, caring, hard-working families with children who are no longer frum. You can probably think of some. Do you think their parents never said things like this?
Unfortunately many children had too much cult like chassidus shoved down their throats. They were suffocated with The Rebbe is Moshiach, The Rebbe is alive etc.I heard it from children myself. The minute they don't buy this they drop everything else also.
ReplyDeleteIf all you people would take all the time you wasted on this blogsite whinging and complaining and instead had learned with your children, talked to them about their issues, tried to make some sort of positive impact on their lives, etc.........Then you would be a lot closer than you are now to solving your problems.
ReplyDeleteWhy isn't Shoshana Silcove more involved in our mosdos? She is obviously a very talented and knowledgable person, good mashpia material. Anyone can see that by reading her responses.
ReplyDeleteHow come they didn't consider her for the O.C. spot that came up recently?
anyone????
'cause all the girls would have been transferred to Adass....
ReplyDeleteThanks for the compliments. To LOL: If I did have a duaghter I would send her to Adass, only because BR is not a Chassidishe school.
ReplyDeleteAs far as being chosen to work in OC, firstly I am not qualified as I do not have the Torah learning needed, and secondly, I would not be hired because I am not politcally correct.
I am a free lance writer and a sales consultant. Those are the two types of work I have always done. If I had had a longer time to study Torah instead of the 2 years I spent in the balei teshuvah seminary (at an adult age) I could have gone into chinuch.
But this brings up another issue and that the under utilization of talent. This happens as a result of the nepotism--people are often hired not because of their merit or perfomrance but because of who they are connected to or becuase they are poltically correct. We wind paying the price for nepotism by oftne having second rate talents in key positions in our educatiuonal system.