A Cry for Help
Wednesday night 17th Aug. 2005
8.00 – 8.30 pm.
Followed by Ma’ariv and a Short Siyum.
Yeshivah Shul, 92 Hotham St. East S Kilda
Men, Women and Children are urged to attend
Wednesday night 17th Aug. 2005
8.00 – 8.30 pm.
Followed by Ma’ariv and a Short Siyum.
Yeshivah Shul, 92 Hotham St. East S Kilda
Men, Women and Children are urged to attend
I cant believe that at long last, someone other than Aust Friends of Gush Katif, cares enough to actually bother to organise something. This "CRY FOR HELP" is just a little overdue is it not? The guilotine was meant to fall on Gush Katif on Wednesday 5am ? Better late than never !!!!
ReplyDeletedisbelief, Who are you to pass judgement on the level of committment of other Melbourne Jews for EY? Many of us care about what is happening in EY, so get off your high horse. You have no idea what your fellow Jews are doing privately, without fanfare and grandstanding, to alleiviate the pain of the Yidden in EY. Certainly, the quiet, level headed activites of sincere tefillah, giving tzedakah, working to educate people concering the issues of shleimas haeretz, and self improvement, are not as glamorous or exciting to some people as making a noise in the streets, flying orange flags, and placing expensive, ineffective, useless, offensive, deceitful, misleading, emabarrasing, and inflammatory ads in the AJN.
ReplyDeleteThe 'guillotine' is falling on GK? That is inflammatory language and a gross exaggeration. The settlers are not being murdered, in GK, G-d forbid, and this is not the French revolution. This type of irresponsible hotheaded rhetoric is nothing but incitement to violence. Obviously, you see the soldiers as your enemy and not as your fellow Jews. You are not motivated mainly by love for Yidden, but by your hatred for those with whom you have ideological disagreements. This is immoral, against Torah principles, and illustrates exactly why I loathe the tactics and methods of the Aust. Friends of Gush Katif, which should really be called the 'Australian Enemies of the Jews With Whom They Disagree With'. Yours is an organisation filled not with love for your fellow Jews, unfortunately, but one that is motivated more by hatred.
Tfilla is a great suggestion for all jewish people. but how about taking it one step further.
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't everyone who feels passionatley about the disengagment, invite someone for shabbes this friday night who may not share the same view as them.
It would be nice to break bread, share your feelings, your pain, and end the night by singing tehillim.
Saying tehillim is great. And to bring members of our community to davven maariv betzibbur is even more meritworthy (though of course it should be a daily occurence for chassidish Jews).
ReplyDeleteHowever if "A Cry for Help" refers to trying to save the settlements, this clearly goes against what Chazal tell us that if someone prays for something that has already happened "Herei zeh tefilas shov".
Bnei Akiva's US branch struggles to stay neutral
ReplyDeleteBy BEN-ZION JAFFE
JERUSALEM POST
Bnei Akiva of North America and Bnei Akiva Israel appear to be split on the issue of disengagement – at least formally.
The Israeli chapter is officially opposed to the disengagement. Bnei Akiva of the US and Canada, on the other hand, does not have an official political stance and, formally, only seeks to educate its members on different views revolving around the issue.
Steve Frankel, director of Mach Hach BaAretz, a Bnei Akiva trip in which 16-year-old North American teens tour Israel by bus, said Bnei Akiva of the United States and Canada is not an "Israeli organization, therefore we do not take a political stance."
Speaking about members of Bnei Akiva Israel, Frankel said "they know that their opinions affect their own lives. They could be soldiers in Gush Katif or live there and have to deal with consequences of their own decisions. It's not like that for Bnei Akiva of North America."
Frankel noted that although "is no secret that most Orthodox Jews are against disengagement," Bnei Akiva of North America still was not taking an official stance on the pullout.
::::::::::::::::::
wHAT ABOUT mELB ba???
The statement that Bnei Akiva is not an "Israeli organization, therefore we do not take a political stance" sounds wrong to me. As an ex-Bnei guy I know that the main focus is on Israel and BA is concerned with every aspect of Israel including politics. If this quote is correct I wonder why this guy is scared to commit?
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to have some input from Bnei Akiva members here in Melbourne.
<<<<< Policeman Bludgeons Kedumim Youth at Non-Violent Protest
ReplyDelete05:10 Aug 17, '05 / 12 Av 5765
(IsraelNN.com) A member of the Israel Police Yasam commando force, using excessive violence against demonstrators at Gamah Junction, bludgeoned a youth from Kedumim with the butt of his rifle, resulting in serious head injuries.
The youth collapsed and his evacuation to a hospital was delayed.
His friends report that the army and police did not call for a helicopter as is customary for such a severe head injury, ambulances trying to reach him were halted, and his treatment was willfully neglected by the police and army forces who were in the field. He was reported to be in serious condition>>>
My worst nightmares being realized:Jewish on Jewish violence. The horror and tragedy of it all is almost too much to bear. Ad Mosai!
Why do people quote from the radical right wing IsraelNN. This is part of the outlawed Arutz Sheva!
ReplyDeleteThey are not balanced or acurate! Only full of propoganda.
and what do you think HaEretz is, Torah from Sinai?
ReplyDeleteArutz Sheva is tha antidote to the Israeli media that is left wing dominated, and that is why the left wing establishment has always tried to silence it!
Every news media outlet should be read with a bit of mistrust, however, Arutz Sheva, even with its apparent right wing bias, is more fair and pro-Jewish than the Jerusalem Post et al.
Great article. Yes, that`s the time toput the end to this bloody comedy. I was at the pullout opponents rally in TA last THursday and got a strong impression that those ppl were sick. It looks like a classical case of mass paranoya. They start from an insane point - that one ppl can and may rule another ppl, that in the 21 cent. there still is a place for colonies and that we still have to send our kids to die protecting their beautiful villas. Their whinning "where shall we go now?" on radio and TV makes me sick - hundreds of thousands have immigrated to Israel without any property, not knowing a word in Hebrew - with a very small support from the state, and have survived. And these ppl, who in my eyes are the shame of the nation, dare to fight back the soldiers, which have been protecting their lives.
ReplyDeleteGloves off - that`s the time.
`What broke me was the theft of land'
ReplyDeleteBy Akiva Eldar HAARETZ
He is 32, married and a new father, a settler until recently at Shirat Hayam in the Gaza Strip. Most of his life - as a boy in the Bnei Akiva movement, as a student at a hesder yeshiva (which combines Torah study and military service), and as a student at Bar-Ilan University - Yigal (real name withheld) spent in Gush Katif. In recent years, he has been working in education. My first telephone conversation with him was conducted more than two years ago, with the mediation of MK Zahava Gal-On, the chair of the Meretz faction in the Knesset. My most recent conversation was held yesterday, when he phoned from the yard of his parents' home in Neveh Dekalim.
Once he reported on a synagogue that was built illegally, and another time he talked about meetings with the defense minister's aide for settlement with the tacit understanding that the Israel Defense Forces' authorities would not block them from trampling the Palestinians' fields. Several months before the disengagement plan let the genie of Jewish fanaticism out of the bottle, Yigal talked with disgust about rabbis of the Gush who poison young souls with the hatred of Arabs. Last month, he was prompted to call by the sight of the Jewish invaders who took over a cluster of abandoned houses in the sands of Shirat Hayam that once had served the Egyptian army.
Yigal's information has always been wonderfully precise. Sometimes he has accompanied it with internal documents. The defense minister's office usually would promise to instruct the IDF to act, and the IDF would send us to the police. Yigal usually reported that the world of the Jewish settlers was going its own merry way. Ever since the siege of Kfar Maimon, he has been phoning nearly every day. He is worried by the scandalous ease with which the masses are crossing the roadblocks. The fear of a violent clash gives him no rest. At the end of the week, he came to help his parents pack their possessions.
Sadness about the separation is not evident in his voice, only anxiety - anxiety about the soldiers' well-being, anxiety about the fate of religious Zionism.
In our last phone conversation, Yigal spoke about what had motivated him to seek salvation among elements that are considered haters of Israel in the environment where he grew up. "My father served in the police in the area and got friendly with the neighbors. Our house was open to our brothers the Ishmaelites. I met them at family weddings and at bar mitzvah celebrations, sitting beside council heads and ordinary Jews. I saw that it is possible to make peace with them. I used to ride my bike in the streets of Khan Yunis.
The Arab fishermen on the beach always looked to me like equal human beings. As far as I am concerned, the Gush people who talk about `death to the Arabs' are no different from the Hamasniks. What broke me was the theft of land between Neveh Dekalim and Shirat Hayam. I saw a fellow, someone who looked like a perfectly normal citizen to me expelling a group of Arabs from the Muasi from their vegetable patch. He had guys from the Torat Hahaim Yeshiva with him, who are no less extreme than the ones from the Joseph's Tomb Yeshiva. I tried to speak to him, and I came up against a brick wall. I was in shock. I realized that these people were enlisting the ideology in order to get control of lands," he says.
You know you it just makes one shudder to think that 250,000 thousand crying at the Kosel!!millions davening around the world and...nothing changed in the decree... Gevald, are we far away...gevald, gevald how small we are and how far we are from Hashem today!!
ReplyDelete________________________________
ReplyDeleteLast update - 18:36 17/08/2005
________________________________
Neveh Dekalim clashes continue; evacuation expected to continue into night
Israel Defense Forces officials were hammering out a deal with Neveh Dekalim settlement leaders Wednesday, as clashes between protesters and troops continued. The forced evacuation of the settlement is expected to continue into the night hours.
Members of the militant Chabad movement who had infiltrated Neveh Dekalim and entrenched themselves Wednesday in the bomb shelter of a girl's seminary demanded that the evacuating forces wrap themselves in tefillin (Jewish prayer phylacteries).
They also demanded that the IDF release Avi Bieber, the soldier who was arrested last month when he refused to follow orders to demolish buildings in preparation for the disengagement.
The IDF passed responsibility for negotiations with the barricaded Chabad members to Colonel Amos Ben Avraham.
Around 2 P.M., Labor MK Matan Vilnai was hit on his head by an egg thrown by a pullout opponent while he was visiting Neveh Dekalim.
Earlier in the day, security forces encountered violent resistance from settlers and pullout opponents who had infiltrated the Gaza Strip.
Police arrested about 60 protesters, most of whom do not live in Gush Katif, and sent them out of Neveh Dekalim, the largest Gaza settlement, on buses.
Hundreds of troops grabbed settlers and pushed them into buses. Police scuffled with a large crowd, as the smoke from burning garbage rose into the air. Protesters fought with police officers and threw eggs and water bottles at them. One family pushed soldiers out of their home and began breaking down the house with a hammer.
One young woman shouted, "I don't want to, I don't want to," as she was carried out of a house in Neveh Dekalim.
However, students of the Torat Haim yeshiva in Neveh Dekalim, which had been expected to be a center of opposition to security forces, were packing when the troops arrived. About 210 of the 470 families in Neveh Dekalim had already left by midnight Tuesday.
The more than 15,000 police officers and soldiers deployed in Gush Katif also marched into the Gaza settlements of Ganei Tal, Bedolah and Tel Katifa to begin the forced evacuation.
Security forces entered the settlement of Bedolah in the morning and made their way into the synagogue, where residents had barricaded themselves. By noon, all the residents except one woman had left on their own.
Ganei Tal residents were trying to convince security forces Wednesday not to implement the evacuation, but they have all agreed to leave the area on their own between 1 P.M. and 3 P.M. Wednesday.
Tel Katifa residents apparently reached an agreement with the army to leave the settlement in an orderly convoy, the army said.
The army is allowing those settlers who don't clash with the security forces to leave the settlements in their own cars.
PM aide: Settlements could be evacuated within 48 hours
A senior aide to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said early Wednesday that all or nearly all of the 21 Gaza Strip settlements could be evacuated within 48 hours, declaring that the opposition to the disengagement has failed.
The IDF Southern Command and the Disengagement Administration said that more than half the settlers in Gaza - 832 families out of the 1,550 registered as residents - had left their homes by midnight Tuesday, the deadline after which the IDF has announced it will use force against those who refuse to leave.
Asked if pullout officials now believed the overall evacuation could be complete within two days, Eival Giladi, Prime Minister's Office chief of coordination and strategy, told Army Radio:
"It is a feasible assessment. It is not an an accessment that we have accepted as a formal accessment. I don't want to fix a certain time. Our approach is that there is time." According to Giladi, apparently referring to prior predictions that resistance to evacuation would be accompanied by spasms of violence, "The greatest success of the leaders of the opposition is that the opposition has failed.
"In the future, I believe that the fact that the opposition reached a certain level and then flagged, will be seen as a success and not a failure."
Several settlements have been totally or nearly totally evacuated. Bedolah and Pe'at Sadeh have emptied out, and there are only a few families left in Slav, Rafiah Yam, Kfar Yam and Gadid.
Of the three northern Gaza settlements, there are 15 (out of an original 74) families still in Elei Sinai, and Nisanit and Dugit have been totally evacuated, according to the Disengagement Administration. The IDF does not plan to exert much effort to complete the evacuation of Elei Sinai.
To see Chabad called "militant" is very sad! To see on TV the yellow mishiachistin flags being waved by some fanatics is even sadder!
ReplyDeleteWhat would the Rebbe say?
why were there so few people at the tehillim gathering last night?
ReplyDeleteThe feeling of powerlessness sitting by my computer is difficult to explain just as I have finished speaking to Dror Vanunu who just half an hour ago was thrown out of his house and forced on to a bus with his wife and chidren on route to Yerushalayim.
ReplyDeleteRibbono Shel Olam have mercy on Your children......
Throughout this period even though I am not a Lubavitcher, the Rebbe has been my steering force...The Rebbe spoke words 30 years ago which ring true today...The Rebbe has yelled out with his teachings even though physically The Rebbe is not with us...MELBOURNE CHABAD CAN BE PROUD....MELBOURNE CHABAD HAD A VOICE AND DESPITE OPPOSITION HAD THE GUTS TO CRY OUT THE REBBE'S TEACHINGS WHILE THE REST OF THE MELBOURNE COMMUNITY REMAINED PATHETICALLY SILENT....MIZRACHI SHOULD BE ASHAMED....I AM NOT SURE WHAT ZIONISM MEANS BUT HOW COULD YOU MIZRACHI HAVE REMAINED SO QUIET?....WHAT WILL YOU TELL YOUR GRANDCHILDREN???
We must pray to Hashem that He has mercy on His flock and that we remove the wicked Sharon Govt and replace the rule of Israel in the hands of a religious Government who will regain Gush Katif & Shomron and will not compromise with these terrorists. Then the lion will lie down with the lamb and peace will reign over the world with the coming of Mashiach.
I saw a news report on FOX news yesterday that the UN is not only funding humanitarian aid to the Palestinians, but is also funding the Palestinian campaign that has as it's slogan: "GAZA today, Jerusalem tomorrow." Did anyone else see that report too? The UN has expressed "shock" at this and is "investigating". Oh really?
ReplyDeleteSo, if Jerusalem is rocked by shells and car bombs, don't expect the UN to lift a finger to stop it.
"The United Nations bankrolled the production of thousands of banners, bumper stickers, mugs, and T-shirts bearing the slogan "Today Gaza and Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem," which have been widely distributed to Palestinian Arabs in the Gaza Strip, according to a U.N. official. "
ReplyDeleteI saw this report on the NY Sun.
Where is the outrage of Jewish organisations worldwide about this?
To the Office of the Prime Minister
ReplyDeleteJerusalem. Att. Mr Amir Davis
Dear Sir,
After speaking To Dr Lanny Lamm and Dr Ron Weiser I advise that Mr Moshe Elkman and his private organisation (that has about 6 members) speak for no one but themselves. They have no idea of reality as they are hyped up by the militant right web sites. They forged an ad in the local paper in the name of 33 teachers and Rabbis. This has caused enormous problems to these Rabbis and the Jewish community.
This group who have been named "The orange People" are seen as loony militant fanatics.They have 2 or 3 people who have mental disabilities.
Wishing you Shalom
William (Hersh) Bowie.
-----Original Message-----
From: Moshe Elkman [mailto:thecoatman@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 1:49 AM
To: Ariel Sharon
Subject: Shame Shame Shame Shame Shame Shame
With G-d's blessing B"H
Dear PM Sharon,
I am ashamed.....the news said that you are in tears...what a joke!!!!!
Millions of lives are at risk....you have no heart my friend...."Hashem has hardened your heart"
Children presented a film presentation to the Kenesset which would have affected any normal person's heart
A woman has just set herself alight
A mother has baracaded herself in her house with her children and a knife to her throat threatening to kill herself if the soldiers enter her house and try to remove them
And you are crying? It is a little late for you to cry Mr Sharon as the psychological damage you have caused individuals children, parents and soldiers and the whole nation both in and outside of Eretz Israel is inconceivable.
Your government will not last and you have now given the impetus for a religious government which follows the Torah and the rule of Hashem.
Please write back and let me know how I and many of my Australian friends can come to Israel to help form a religious party and religious government.
I look forward to your reply and trust that just as Hashem has hardened your heart that Hashem will release his grip and soften your heart and the IDF will be used as the Israeli Defence Force and not the Israeli Disengagement Force.
I sit back in amazement Mr Sharon at what is happening and you should know that we had a rally on 19th July attracting over 1000 people against disengagement and after my recent visit to Ambassador Tamir I hope you received our Australian petition.
You do not have Melbourne's support.
I look forward to your reply as to how I can be part of a religious government which will stand tall and proud as Jews and will stand up to terrorism.
Best wishes,
Moshe Elkman
Chairman
Australian Friends of Gush Katif & Shomron Inc
www.gushkatif.com.au
Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com
Who is Moshe Elkman to preach MIZRACHI SHOULD BE ASHAMED.
ReplyDeleteMAYBE HE AND HIS CHABAD FRIENDS (FANATICS) SHOULD BE ASHAMED!
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI am ashamed.....the news said that you are in tears...what a joke!!!!!
ReplyDelete<< why should it be a joke that Sharon is in tears? His tears may be quite sincere, as he believes the disengagement is a bitter pill that Israel must swallow. I believe he is wrong in this belief, but that does not mean that Sharon is a monster.>>
A mother has baracaded herself in her house with her children and a knife to her throat threatening to kill herself if the soldiers enter her house and try to remove them
<< could it be that this particular woman was already a bit on the edge and the stress of the disengagement pushed her completely off? Surely well balanced people do not behave this way and surely not too many others in her situation acted out this irrationally either. She is the exception rather than the rule.>>
Please write back and let me know how I and many of my Australian friends can come to Israel to help form a religious party and religious government.
< OCH ONVAY if you become would be a part of a new religious government. What type of policies wOULD you endorse? A government run by the likes of you would be no better than Sharon's and maybe even worse! Your tactics and methods as chairman of your group proves this.>>
we had a rally on 19th July attracting over 1000 people against disengagement
<< Moshe, once again you show either you are out of touch with reality and really believe the fabrications you tell, or you know you are not telling the truth but think the rest of us are stupid enough to believe you. Which is it?.>>
You do not have Melbourne's support
<< Now I am anti-disengagement but, this is a most presumptous statment to make, since you are not the spokesperson for all of Melbourne Jewry or, even for a substantial part of it. How dare you pretend to represent all of Melbourne! Or are you suffering from a delusion that you do? Besides, I wish most of Melbourne Jewry would be anti-disengagement, but I would venture to guess that the anti-disengagement camp is sadly still in the minority in this city, and in no small way we have you to thank for this.>>
And Israel's new flag will be the Yellow Yechi flag as they had in Gush Katif!
ReplyDeleteshoshana wrote:
ReplyDelete"The United Nations bankrolled the production of thousands of banners, bumper stickers, mugs, and T-shirts bearing the slogan "Today Gaza and Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem," which have been widely distributed to Palestinian Arabs in the Gaza Strip, according to a U.N. official. "
I saw this report on the NY Sun.
Where is the outrage of Jewish organisations worldwide about this?
And if what you wrote in regards to moshe elkmans letter doesn't answer this question enough, I will explain why no one is answering back.
People who are standing up for what is right and for what they believe in are copping it from people like you who are quick to critisize.
"Where is the outrage of Jewish organisations worldwide about this?" -You said. They are too busy worrying about people being forced out of their homes. Anwering attacks for why they are denouncing the disengagement being told that they should be like everyone else and sit back and watch. Now being told why aren't you doing anything about the U.N. well hello!
to ss shut up-I have no reply to your simple minded myopia so be happy-you rendered me speechless!
ReplyDeleteI said rendered speechless, but only to that one comment.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, why don't you people believe in free speech? You don't like it when Sharon tries to silence opinons he does not like, but you Aust. Friends of GK people are trying to do the same thing by telling me to shut up!!
I will not be silenced. I have as much of a right to voice my views as Moshe, or anyone else has. He has no more rights than me, he is no more important or choshov than me, or than anyone else, even if he tries to elevate himself above the rest of us.
As I said, if Moshe and his group were G-d forbid in the Israeli gvoernment, they would be just as bad or worse than Sharon.
It is so sad the disengagement has torn the Jewish people apart, but Moshe doesn't care about having achdus, as is shown by his divisive comments above regarding how Mizrachi should be ashamed. Moshe is adding to our divisiveness while using the Rebbe's name!!
HYPOCRISY ABOUNDS!!!
We cannot stop what is going on in Eretz Yisroel,disengagement will happen, whether we like it or not .
ReplyDeleteWhy don't the bloggers direct their efforts & Energy and try to and help the Lubavich community in Melbourne.
Anyone contacted the PTB ?
THE PATTERN OF THE OSLO PIECE PROCESS:
ReplyDelete1)Arab suicide bombers kill Jews
2)Jews concede land to the Arabs
3)Arabs celebrate victory
4)Arab suicide bombers kill Jews
5)Jews free Arab terrorists from Israeli prisons
6)Arabs celebrate victory
7)Arab suicide bombers kill Jews
8)Jews expel Jews
9)Arabs celebrate victory
8)The entire pattern start over again from number one.
When will it end? How will it end?
WHEN WILL WE JEWS CELEBRATE?
Moshach Now!
Pearl said...
ReplyDeleteWho is Moshe Elkman to preach MIZRACHI SHOULD BE ASHAMED.
>>>
Sadly, he is 100% correct.
It is mainly the Mizrachi crowd in Israel that is being driven out of their homes and communities and what do our local Mizrachi people do about it??
Zilch, zero and nix!!
They simply don't give a damn at what is happening to their Jewish and spirirtual brethren.
If not the Chabad (at least Chaim Zvi) community and Moshe would have had no support at all.
I too join Moshe in asking where is Bnei Akiva, where is Mizrachi, Where are the other zionist groups and where are the vast majority of the rebbe's chassidim??
Tragic, isn't it?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteFew people came last night (to Tehillim gathering) as it was inadvertently at the same time as Parent Teacher evenings for both Beth Rivkah Secondary and Primary; a real shame.
ReplyDeleteSO MOSHE ELKMAN WROTE TO PM SHARON TO HELP HIM AND HIS FRIENDS CREATE A NEW RELIGOUS GOVERNMENT IN ISRAEL.
ReplyDeleteSO FROM COATS, TO MILITANT ACTIVIST AND NOW MAYBE NEXT PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL.
Mazel Tov Moshe and Nora!
Analysis: A day of victory for the soldiers and police in Gush Katif
ReplyDeleteBy Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent
On day three of the disengagement plan, the Israel Defense Forces and police began to methodically dismantle resistance in Gush Katif settlements.
The initial impression was attained Tuesday evening, in the dramatic raid on Neveh Dekalim. It was strengthened Wednesday morning by the dispatch of nearly 20,000 soldiers and police into the Gush - first and foremost, into Neveh Dekalim, but also into a series of smaller settlements in the bloc's south and north.
Resistance was fairly weak, and by evening, almost two-thirds of the residents had left and about half the settlements had practically emptied. The streets of Neveh Dekalim were filled mostly by roaming teenagers, most of them non-resident infiltrators, while other ideological strongholds, such as Netzarim, Kfar Darom and Atzmona, held discreet negotiations for early and agreed-upon evacuation under extenuating terms.
Day one of the forceful evacuation phase went much better than planners had anticipated, with very few problems and almost no violence. Local dramas, which were hyped out of all proportion on television broadcasts, were solved relatively quickly and within the unofficial rules of the game recognized by both sides. No barricading incident lasted more than a few hours, while the settlers, who frequently cursed soldiers and police officers and sabotaged their vehicles, refrained in an overwhelming majority of cases from beating security personnel.
No small credit for this goes to local leaders, rabbis and members of Knesset, who worked to prevent tensions from escalating into violent outbursts.
The evacuation is surging ahead; the quality of cooperation between the IDF and police has surprised even optimists among the top brass (and should inspire at least a little concern in the citizenry, lest this successful symbiosis not cease after the disengagement). The struggle has been won in effect. Those who can still delay the disengagement's completion are mostly the Palestinians, should they choose to avenge the individuals killed in the Jewish terrorist attack in Shilo by targeting the convoys of exiting residents.
More than anything, Wednesday belonged to the soldiers and police forces. They withstood unbearable psychological pressure, wiping away a more-than-occasional tear; but as of Wednesday night, nobody had refused an order. Nor did anyone lose his or her cool. At most, a soldier withdrew aside to recover, accompanied closely by one of the officers.
How dare you guys knock Mizrachi. All you fellows want is action to find a platform to spread your messianic message. The yellow Yechi flags can be seen on all news bulletins. So some lost teenagers come from kfar chabad looking for some fun.
ReplyDeleteWHO ARE THE SETTLERS? Chabad or Mizrachi??
Apparently the Yeshiva office received 3 emails from supporters stating that they will never give another cent to any chabad institution due to the Psak. A number of Chabad houses have also had members resigning. An Israeli cancelled his sons barmitzvah from Bentleigh Chabad house also due to the psak.
ReplyDeleteWAS IT ALL WORTH IT?
THE WAY OF THE REBBE Bdarkei Noam is the only way!
proud ex-bnei still hasn't answered why Mizrachi was silent regarding the disengagement. Surely by issuing a statement they would not be associated with the orange people. It seems strange to me since most of the settlers belong to the Mizrachi stream.
ReplyDeleteThe settlers behaved like responsible people. Nearly 70% moved out before the deadline and the balance treated the IDF with respect. The problem were the chabad kids with their yellow flags and some loonies.
ReplyDeleteSomeone claimed that Elkman belongs to Bet Hatalmud.
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing is I doven at Ohel Devora and see him their all the time. Maybe there are 2 Elkmans!
I heard the Meadow street Moshe say that he follows R'Chaim Tzvi.
Not to confuse the 2 Moshes can we colour code them?
ReplyDeleteChabad’s rocky road to radicalism
ReplyDeleteTHERE was a time when Chabad worshipped the God of Love. If there was a God of War, He was commander of a spiritual army whose young foot soldiers brandished nothing more than the weapons of Jewish ritual.
The engagement with earthly politics goes back to the 1980s, when the Rebbe, who never stepped foot on Israeli soil, made pronouncements against relinquishing the conquered territories of the Six-Day War. His statements, while professing to be based on strategic knowledge, were in fact biblically-founded claims which held that Jews could never be defined as foreign occupiers on land promised by God.
The death of the Rebbe coincided with Oslo, when the process of ceding land was in motion. Under the leadership of Rabbi Joseph Gutnick, regarded as the Rebbe’s special emissary for the integrity of the Land of Israel, Chabad was transformed into a political wing of Israel’s far right. It was Gutnick who bankrolled Netanyahu’s victory after the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin through the slogan “Bibi is good for the Jews”, a slogan not quite as inflammatory as the current one, “Jews do not expel Jews” (just substitute the words “Christians do not expel Christians” to read the implications against the backdrop of our own history).
In the end, Bibi proved to be not so good for the Jews who voted for him, because he agreed to transfer control of Hebron to the Palestinian Authority. But credit for the failure of Oslo rests with Arafat, who temporarily saved the ideology of Greater Israel even though the demographic reality was threatening Israeli democracy.
HERE’S the rub: unlike the national-religious messianists, Chabad has never made a pact with the secular state of Israel. While many settler leaders of ultra-nationalist Zionism will defy the decision to evacuate Gaza, the mainstream still acknowledges the legitimacy — as a religious principle — of the secular government of Israel. A majority of the national-religious camp recognises that come the day after disengagement, they will have to bring their youth home from the hilltops and sand dunes, and heal the rift between rabbis and politicians, the state and their messianic yearnings, if Zionism is to survive.
So where were our Mizrachi people?
ReplyDeleteDo they have a blog?
Once upon a time Chabad were the anti zionists (see the writings of the Rayatz) and Mizrachi were the zionists.
ReplyDeleteSeems like we have changed roles!
Chabad are not Zionists. They do not say Hallel on Yom Haatzmut. They do not live in the settlements.
ReplyDeleteThey only use the protests as a platform for their Mashiach campaign.
Thanks to the impetus given to them by the fiasco of Elkman, Oliver & Co., the Chabad bashers are now coming out of the woodwork in full force.
ReplyDeleteMark Baker is now also jumping on the Chabad bashing bandwagon, unfairly painting us all with a broad brush as a bunch of radicals. Chabad is not now and never has been a monolithic group. Yosel Gutnick was never powerful enough to, as Baker asserts, transform the entire Chabad movement into Israel's political right wing. This is a preposterous assertion that can only be put forth by someone completely ignorant of the inner workings of the Chabad movement.
In reality,Yosel has many detractors within Chabad, and his very claim to the position of the Rebbe's official shaliach to EY has been challenged and questioned by many of his fellow Chabadniks, many of whom do not believe the Rebbe ever actually gave him this title. While Yosel claims the Rebbe did, many Chabadniks believe that there is a lack of proof to substantiate this.
Moreover,Mr. Baker is mistaken in that he believes he understands the Rebbe's position visa-vis EY. The Rebbe's theological ideas on this subject are far more complex and esoteric than Mr. Baker seems to realize. Mr. Baker's simplification of the Rebbe's Zionism into black and white terms leads me to believe he never really carefully studied the Rebbe's works in this regard.
If the Rebbe were he here today, he would almost certainly condemn all radicalism.
As much as the Rebbe disagreed with certain Israeli government policies, at no time did the Rebbe encourage his Chassidim to defy the legitimacy of the Israeli government and he never even hinted at such. In fact, the Rebbe treated all Israeli government officials, from all poltical factions, and the IDF, with the greatest deference and respect, as can be seen by all in many videos.
Baker's opening statement in this article is troubling. He writes: "THERE was a time when Chabad worshipped the God of Love. If there was a God of War, He was commander of a spiritual army whose young foot soldiers brandished nothing more than the weapons of Jewish ritual."
As a Chabadnik I find this comment highly insulting. What makes Mr. Baker think that Chabad worships the god of war, G-d forbid? This is a compeltely hateful and slanderous statement that Mr. Baker should retract!.
Mr. Baker may be a highly respected academic in his field of expertise, but it is obvious that on this particular subject he is no expert at all. In fact, he is too blinded by prejudice for his uneducated opinions to be taken seriously as anything but a diatribe in fancy dress.
Baker is a stuck-up arrogantrich spoilt kid - who has no idea of the real frum world
ReplyDeleteChabad has always had its fair share of bashers.
ReplyDeleteChabad has always had its fair share of meshuganners.
I think these two groups are highy attracted to this blog.
Gaza: NY Jews threaten suicide Neve Dekalim Settlement -
ReplyDeleteMembers of a New York-based ultra-Orthodox Jewish movement were threatening to commit mass suicide on Wednesday in protest at the Gaza Strip pull-out, security sources and associates said.
The members of the Lubavitch movement had barricaded themselves inside a communal bomb shelter at the main Gaza Strip settlement of Neve Dekalim with gas cylinders, said their local leader, Rabbi Yigal Kirshenzaft.
"There are about 20 of them shut inside a bomb shelter and say they have gas there," he said.
An AFP correspondent said border police officers and two rabbis were trying to negotiate through air vents with the group, mostly Americans, inside.
One security source put the number inside at about a dozen, but said it had not been confirmed that the group also had gas canisters.
The group are followers of the late Rabbi Menacham Mendel Schneerson, who headed the ultra-Orthodox Lubavitch movement until his death 11 years ago.
Maybe Oliver and Elkman will try the same prank!
Maniacs like these really give us a good name.
Please see www.debka.com
ReplyDeleteThe "Debka files" are excellent "intellience" reports, they reveal defence secrets, like no other media does !!!
Please see article called "Was This Huge Army Really Necessary" ?
breifly he says that Sharon is using the IDF for cheap political gain! To create an impression of an enormous undemocratic right-wing foe. But such a foe did not exist!
Sharon sent 40,000 soldiers and 15,000 police, TOTAL 55,000. But most settlers were either gone by Tuesday, or left Wed. easily without violence. It was only the 1000 teenage boys in Neve Dekalim shul, who were outnumbered 55 to 1.
Sharon the traitor, again does a deal with the left-bias media to create a houx to fool the world.
I would send him to the Greek Islands for good. But he keeps coming back, like a "Boomerang" !
Yes, I too would recommend www.debka.com see previous comment.
ReplyDeleteThe whole thing was an orchestrated media circus!!! Surely a few hundred cops is all you need to deal with a hand full of naughty boys on the Shul roof !
sOLDIERS ARE BEING HURT BY THESE ZEALOTS. oNE WAS STABBED, there is one on his roof top with a loaded gun. These meshuganas are using the shule for cheap political point scoring. It is easy for us to say from Australia how many soldiers are needed to deal with those who are out to harm jewish soldiers.
ReplyDeleteJerusalem Post, August 18:
ReplyDelete"As Israel struggled Thursday to evacuate the Gush Katif settlements, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said it must take further steps.
"Everyone empathizes with what the Israelis are facing," she said in an interview with The New York Times. But, she added, "It cannot be Gaza only."
APPEASMENT NEVER WORKS!
WHERE WILL IT END? HOW MUCH DOES ISRAEL GIVE FOR NOTHING IN RETURN?
A BACKLASH MUST HAPPEN!
The "chabadniks" who locked themselves were 8 bochurim from crown heights led by M. Seawald. Their plan was to lock themselves up and convince the goverment they were making a mass suicide in order to come to a compromise that a soldier who is in jail now for disobeying an order (not taking jews from their homes) be let free and to try to stop the disengagement of the people in Neve Dekalim.
ReplyDeleteTheir plans failed when army sawed down the door to the bunker.
The army found 3 weeks worth of food and no gas in the shelter which proves they had no intentions of killing them selves.
tHEY HAD INTENTION TO CAUSE HAVOC. Remind me of the Arab hijackers in the 70's! I hope they get long jail sentences.
ReplyDeleteTo be called a Lubavitcher comes with responsibilities.
BBC news reported wrom live reporters that soldiers were pelted with ACID.
ReplyDeleteThes orange people to not have a yiddishe neshona.
I saw a solder pick up a kipa from someone being carried and putting it back on his head. Sharon and his soldiers have proven to be more humane than SOME of the orange fanatics.
The Rebbe was right when he held sharon in the highest regard.
Ship Americans back to America
ReplyDeletesue d. said "Sharon and his soldiers have proven to be more humane than SOME of the orange fanatics."
ReplyDeleteThat is because ideologues can lose their humanity to the higher ideals they slavishly serve.
The commmunists in America, many of them Jewish, justified Stalin's gigantic crimes against humanity. They believed the murdering of millions of innocents was a neccessary measure to be taken in order to save humanity by creating their communist utopia.
As the old saying goes, "to make an omlet one needs to break a few eggs" or in the case of the local orange fanatics "one needs to break a few halachos."
I want to differentiate between those local orange fanatics and the plain menchlik orange protestors in EY. There is a difference between the two groups. There are many orange protestors in EY who are peaceably resisting, as is their democratic right to do so. The ones I take issue with are the fantical types who become crazy and local ones who behave in ways that are not befitting frum Jews. I don't think any one of us can pass judgement on those people in the Gush who are under immense pressure while we sit comfortably in Chut L'Eretz.
Having said that-just imagine for a moment if this situation was happening in any other nation. For sure there would have been blood running in the streets. Once again, by their noble conduct, and relative non-violence on both sides, the Yidden have shown the world that we deserve to be called 'a light unto the nations.'
Have a Gut Shabbos.
Shoshanah you need to go on a blogger - diet
ReplyDeletetry keeping it to a day or two per week
too much of anything is not a good thing and this platform has virtually become your personal venting machine
I have no problem with your expressing your opinions, but you are smothering everyone
honestly, as an outsider looking in, you do yourself a better service by not over doing it, that makes this a more open forum and not Shoshana's playground and will achieve what you really want here, to bring a more credible discussion on the issues
anonymous- it's still a free country, and I can choose to blog as much as I like. You can also choose not to read it!
ReplyDeleteHow do you know what I really want here? Did you ask my motivations or are you assuming?
I am at a distinct disadvantage since you are anonymous no one can tell how mnay times your are positng--you may in fact be posting more frequently than I am, but since I sign my name you know how often I post and with you, anonymous, there is no way to tell who you are, what you really think, or how much you blog.
So, before you preach to me about credibility, trying signing your name!
HYPOCRISY ABOUNDS!
I have just been shown a sheet that someone is distributing that claims to be the original Hebrew version and the published English version of the psak that the 33 Chabad Rabbis signed asking people to spot the differences. The sheet actually offers a $100 gift voucher to The Coatman to anyone who spots the difference....).
ReplyDeleteApparently it's was distributed anonymously so I don't know if it's a joke or serious.
In any event I quickly found seven differences - at least two of them pretty MAJOR. One changes the Shulcahn Aruch's psak that talks about resisting "Akum" that come agianst a jewish city to the word "maurauders" who come to fight Jews - so that the whole psak now could be (and was) interpreted as being a call for civil disobedience by saying it is a mitzvah (worthy of even Shabbat desecration)to take up arms and fight against the TZAVA AND POLICE who are involved in disposessing the settlers. The other six were additions added in the text that significantly raised the militancy and rhetoric of the English version over the Hebrew (adding words such as calling the disengagement "perilous' and "suicidal surrender" .
So it looks like the rabbis were right when they claimed that they had been misrepresented by having their signatures lifted from the Hebrew version to the English version.
I just recieved a copy of the same email from Moshe Elkman directly.
ReplyDeleteI will not have a chance to study it before Shabbos but can email it to whoever wants. Just send your email address to aussieecho@gmail.com.
Be among the first to claim the $100 gift voucher from the Coatman for finding the errors between the English & Hebrew versions.
IMPORTANT REPLY TO SUE D.
ReplyDeleteYou are in a different time zone in more ways than one! Do you believe the ACID story reported by the BBC and others?
The true facts are seen on "Israel National News" - the protesters used WATER from small plastic bottles (dont forget the high summer heat now in Israel - they were left without water for 6 hours on bus)
The ACID story, was invented to justify the Police Brutality - earlier a cop lost his cool and rammed his rifle butt repeatedly into a passive, non-violent, peaceful settler! The settler's ribbs were broken and the gutless cop was not wearing his name tag!
Please never forget - aside from Israel National News, all media outlets are left-bias! That is why Israel National Radio was banned from broadcasting in Israel. Thank goodness you can still hear them over the internet.
Israel's General Secret Service (known as GSS) is a slave for the far-left, is working overtime to fabricate stories and to defame the right-wing.
isareli, this is just a theory since you have no evidence for this.
ReplyDeleteTo Aussie Gal
ReplyDeleteThere is solid evidence - just posted now on www.debka.com
A Member of Knesset is calling the ACID story a "Blood Libel" !!!
israeli
ReplyDelete"srael's General Secret Service (known as GSS) is a slave for the far-left, is working overtime to fabricate stories and to defame the right-wing"
i have no words...realy. this is even more funny than silly.
israeli, debka is known to be inaccurate more often than not. Don't be naive enough to believe everything it says. And I am not a left winger, but am a sensible right winger.
ReplyDeleteaussie gal, I do not get any payment for promoting the Debka Files, I simply read it, like it and have suggested it to others.
ReplyDeleteIt's so easy for you to defame them by saying "debka is known to be inaccurate more often than not".
Aussie gal, if you can bring just a single example of Debka's INACCURACY, then you would have some credibility. If not, we will have to assume you are bias!!!
give me time and I assure you if you keep reading this blog I will find inacuaracies of Debka because I have found many in the past. They are knonw to be rife with innuendo and rumour.
ReplyDeleteacid?
ReplyDeletelemon juice is also acid!!
I am amazed at how an individual like Yehoshofot Oliver can get such reactions here.I know that Moshe Elkman is sincere in his endeavours albeit somewhat naive. But he allows Oliver to lead him. Oliver should get a life, become a productive member of society and keep away from 'adapting halochos'. Not one member of the AFOGK represents Australian Jewry in any way, and they have caused almost irreparable damage to Chabad.What a shame that their good intentions have ended up being so counter ptoductive.I don't give any credibilty to Oliver and therefore am not interested in spotting any differences between the two version of the psak.Ovar zemanoy botul korbonoy.We all now need to go into repair mode and mend the rifts that seeped into , nay flooded, our community.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you oyhev sholoim. The original psak of the 300 Israeli Rabbis that Oliver built his psak on was a reasoned and reasonable presentation of the relevant Halachic issues involved. It also carefully avoided any reference to civil disobedience and condemnation of the Israeli government. Oliver's misguided attempt at "adaption" of that psak(that he actually so prominently and proudly took credit for)to also included the addition political and radical irresponsible comment was actually the cause of the entire controversy. I don't know whether Moshe Elkman saw or completely understood the original psdak but had he have made the effort to do so perhaps he wouldn't have been mislead and his obviously sincere (yet highly naive)efforts may have born better results.
ReplyDeleteMaybe AE you can get hold of the of the ORIGINAL Israeli psak (there's also an accurate English translation of it that I've seen around)and have people compare THAT with the Oliver adaption. That would once and for all show where these people are coming from.
Seeing Israeli soldiers on the floor screaming and shaking in agony after having acid poured on them. How can religous jews dismiss this terrible deed and chillul hashem as 'lemon juice' or 'blood libel'!
ReplyDeleteS H A M E !
Even if it was acid, it wouldn't hurt as much as being thrown out of your home.
ReplyDeleteIf Sharon would have Offered instead of compensation and going to hotels, the settlers can stay in Gush Katif if first they have acid thrown at them.
ReplyDeleteHOW MANY WOULD TAKE UP THE OFFER?
TO ACID,
ReplyDeleteI AGREE LEMON JUICE IS ALSO ACID, BUT THESE WICKED PROTESTERS USED A DIFFERENT ACID!
THE REASON THEY DID NOT USE LEMON JUICE IS THAT THE ACID THEY THREW AT SOLDIERS IS MUCH MORE HARMEFUL AND PAINFUL THAN LEMON JUICE.
were you there ?
ReplyDeletedid you see it?
did you ask someone that was actually there?
or do just read news reports that are there inorder to make news and put the settlers in bad light
My apologies!
ReplyDeleteIt has just been confirmed to me that acid was actually thrown at soldiers on at least 2 seperate ocassions.
I am deeply embarrased and realise that news reports are usually acurate. Let's pray that say stupid ugly acts will never be repeated.
confirmed by who???
ReplyDeletethere's no confirmation that acid was thrown, and there's definetely no confirmation that chabad was involved in any violence whatsoever.
acid said...
ReplyDeleteMy apologies!
It has just been confirmed to me that acid was actually thrown at soldiers on at least 2 seperate ocassions.
I am deeply embarrased and realise that news reports are usually acurate. Let's pray that say stupid ugly acts will never be repeated.
I DID NOT WRITE THIS AND I OFFER NO APOLOGY WHATSOEVER.
and whoever you are that used my name, if you want to play games, i have plenty time on my hands, and this whole blog site is gonna turn into one big joke. i will make sure to use everyones name to write opposite things. so stick to your own name, and stop using mine. or maybe i'll just start posting like most other people here with the name anonymous. (even though all the other names are also anonymous, there was a request onthis blog that people use different names to differentiate)
To Malka, The "liquid" was thrown at POLICE not SOLDIERS. There is a huge difference -
ReplyDeleteIsraeli soldiers are "conscripted", so they could be anyone normal, like you or me.
On the other hand, Police are "volunteers" ! Who on earth wants such a job? Only a real "SADISTIC ANIMAL" who enjoys inflicting pain on others !!! Especially Israel's YASSAM police unit, known for breaking the "LAW" and being violent and brutal - at Kfar Darom they took off or covered their name tags. They dressed in black - either to intimidate or Black hides the blood stains of their victims.
As you can see, I dont have any pity on such brutal police, who are above the law, especially traitors who are the world's only LEFT-WING police.
At Kfar Darom they got what they deserved!!! A taste of their own medicine!!! They were not slaughtered! they were just given a few minutes of well deserved embarasement !!!
Also read that these brutal Yassam Police took unlawful revenge, after they hid from all the world's TV cameras and journalists - they jailed the poor teenagers and left them WET and HANDCUFFED all night till they got dry clothes the next morning! Imagine soaking in your own urine for 16 hours! Dont forget Israel is still called a DEMOCRACY!!
Where the heck was the Red Cross, Amnesty and Tzelem? They never speak out for jews, only "Palestinians". They were no doubt laughing their heads off watching TV.
Firstly, I am opposed to violence by anyone against anyone, always! But self defence is obviously an exception.
ReplyDeleteThe kids on the Shul roof at Kfar Darom were like the freedom fighters of the WARSAW GHETTO UPRISING! I'm proud of them, they restored honour to Eretz Yisrael! They stood up to Sharon the dictator, who manipulated democracy to cover up his son's corruption in the Greek Islands casino scandal!
The biggest critisism of the holocaust period is -- that Jews went "like sheep to the slaughter". The biggest problem today is that Gush Katif evacuees left willingly without a fight. The young heroes prove there is still a fighting spirit amoungst us. Of course its not going to suit 99% of Jews, but these guys have to be admired - they have more guts than me!
To Israeli
ReplyDeletePolice are volunteers: FALSE
Acid was thrown at Police and not at Soldiers: AGAIN FALSE
I don't have pity on such brutal Police: YOU CAN"T BE JEWISH!
Please understand. A police is a profession like any other. The Rebbe gave brochos to many Israeli police.
ReplyDeleteOnce someone is a police he/she must follow orders exactly like any other person working on a job.
To compare young hooligans who throw paint, acid and fire bombs at jewish soldiers and police with the warwaw ghetto is sickening.
ReplyDeleteThese militants took torah scrolls and desecrated them by using them as shields against soldiers. Rabbi Lau (former chief Rabbi) said on Shabbat this is a purpose to fast.
It is a worry that Australia seems to have sympathisers of Jewish Terrorists that use the synagogue and tefillin for cheap political opportunitism.
What about using babies and children?
ReplyDeleteAt last our name is cleared. Israel National News reports that lawyers will sue any Media organisation that dares to repeat the slanderous ACID story - hospital head confirmed there was no ACID on alledged victims and the 8 police were admitted to hospital as a PR stunt!
ReplyDeleteAlso on INN - Likud members signed a petition to convene Likud cental committee to oust Sharon. Omri Sharon, his son, used mafia thugs to threaten members to withdraw their signature. Ariel Sharon said 44 signatures on petition were "forged". The leftists still believe that Israel is a "DEMOCRACY" ???
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteEveryone should know that 2 months ago Shoshanna Silcove was sacked from AFOGKAS committee. This explains her constant revengeful remarks against "Elkman & Co". She is a disgruntled member!
ReplyDeleteIn the public interest, please dont delete this comment!
shoshanna Silcove said...
ReplyDeleteI was never hired so I could never be sacked.
I was elected to the committee and I quit two days later. Mat Gelman asked me not to, but I quit.
Why did I quit? Because I was disgusted by Elkman's attitude. He was yelling at whoever did not agree with him. He was intolerant of any points of view but his. He was unfocused in his goals. Elkman's little committee of self proclaimed friends of the Gush functioned exactly like a group of high school activists--full of emotion and impulsive, erratic, attention seeking behaviour.
In my view, Elkman showed me that he did not understand Israeli politics or the Rebbe's shittahs. And all of these perceptions have been validated with time.
But even I never dreamed Elkman's campaign would have become as ridiculously out of control, unethical, and scandalous as it has become. At the time I quit the group, I never even imagined they would wind up making such a gigantic Chilul Hashem and Chilul Lubavitch. So, I am extremely happy I quit when I did.
Moreover, Elkman & Co. have no more right to express their opinions publicly than I or anyone else does. If they can spread their opinions all over the press at their own whim, then why can't I or anyone else express ours? Are they the special CHOSEN ones? Of course they are not, unless they are deluding themselves that this is the case! What gives them the right to express their views without opposition?
My views about their radicalism are strong because I love EY and the Rebbe and I cannot stand to watch these irresponsible, sophomoric, people besmirch his name and make a mockery of our cause. I have made my voice heard on this issue because I knew from the start Elkman's group was headed for disaster and wanted to warn people.
Because of Elkman and Co. the entire dialogue with the Jewish community about these issues has never taken place. We have been unable to educate anyone on this issue from the beginning because the general Jewish public has been turned off and disgusted by Elkman and Oliver's shenanigans.
This is what upset me the most---that we lost a golden opportunity to actually explain our point of view to our fellow Melbournite Jews. We lost an excellent opportunity as a community to actually do some good for the people of the Gush. I get upset when I think of all the tzedakah that people would have given to the Gush if Elkman & Co. had not made this issue into the fiasco that it is now. I know because I have gone about educating people about shleimas ha Eretz, and I have gone about collecting funds for the people of the Gush, and people have expressed their disgust with the AFOGKAS and have told me that they identify our entire camp with them now.
Because of Elkman and Co., Chabad is now labeled as a radical organisation of extremists. Because of Elkman & Co. the anti-disengement camp is a laughing stock.
So, yes, I take this personally, because I care about the issues and I care about the Rebbe.
For me this is a machlokes l'shem shamayim!!
August 22, 2005 3:13 PM
Shoshanna, people dont read comments that are longer than the Megillah! You always write stuff that is longer than a Shabbos HaGaddol drasha!
ReplyDeleteWe want a Yes or No answer -
Are you a disgruntled member of AFOGKAS? Yes
Is this your reason for attacks on Elkman & Co? Yes
Thanks for telling the truth!
"We want a Yes or No answer"
ReplyDeleteWho is "we"? Whom do you protend to represent? Do you portend to represent the people in AFOGKAS? Yes or NO?
Or do you portend tp representthe many hundreds of people reading this blog?
YES or NO?
Are you merely some misguided person who thinks you represent a 'we' but is too afraid to write your name?
YES or NO?
I already answerd your question above. Are you unable to read it? YES or NO?
Short enough answer for your minute attention span?
YES or No?
In the holocaust we went like "lambs to the slaughter". Our only pride are the freedom fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising!
ReplyDelete60 years later, Gush Katif settlers are expected to leave like "lambs" too! Resistance is not allowed, and is seen as "embarassing" to the weak self-hating Jews!
In my opinion, the youth on the Kfar Darom Shul roof were like those brave freedom fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto. The only regret is they have to attack police not Sharon himself. Sharon is so scared, he spends $300 million annually on "personal protection". The Knesset approved another $120 million on top of that, during the disengagement.
Let us all condemn violence from BOTH sides. Dont forget the police brutality is being swept under the carpet by leftist media!
To pretend HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR!
ReplyDeleteSince when is a young idiotic fanatical militant a holocaust survivor.
Little child please don't play politics with our kedoshim from the shoah. If you believe that Israel spends well over a million dollars a day to protect Sharon get some marbles to play with and don't drive us crazy with your loony views.
"LET US CONDEMN VIOLENCE ON BOTH SIDES" is a line taken from the Muslim Sheiks!
ReplyDeleteThe anti Israeli soldier/police rhetoric is also being copied from the way the Muslims describe our soldiers/police.
ReplyDeleteSad but true.
I can't decide what worries me more--the appeasement, galus mentality of the far left fringe Peace Now types, or the rampant hysterical, paranoia of the anti-disengagment far right fringe types.
ReplyDeleteFringes on either side are dangrerous and full of hatred for their fellow Jews.
Their is no real difference between the mind set of the radical left and the radical right wings. AFOGKAS and Peace Now have more in common than they would like to admit. Both are autocratic intolerant, ideologues, both of them condone methods and tactics that threaten to eat away at the foundations of Israeli society.
G-d help us from the fringes, whoever they may be.
Where hase INN said that if any media repeats the ACID claim they will be sued.
ReplyDeleteWell I have some News.
It has been repeated at least on 4 seperate news services in the past hours. INN and arutz sheva don't deny the acid attack. (Plus firebonb paint, etc. etc.)So some fanatic on this blog must of had a dream.
shoshana
ReplyDelete"G-d help us from the fringes, whoever they may be."
amen . this should really summerise the all discussion here. left or right, they scare the s. out of me
REPLY TO "EREZ"
ReplyDeleteThe INN reports are archived after about 24 hours. I found the original a few days ago - here is a "cut and paste" for you -
(IsraelNN.com) Lawyers for the Honenu civil rights organization representing protesters arrested at Kfar Darom sent a letter to government ministers, Knesset members, senior police officials and media personalities warning them that the infamous "acid" story is nothing but a blood-libel - and that anybody repeating the lie in the future would be sued for slander.
Chairman of Knesset Legal committee, MK Michael Eitan strongly condemned continued media reports that protesters threw acid on security forces from the roof of Kfar Darom's synagogue - despite the fact that such claims were proven groundless. According to Eitan, experts examined the substance at Soroka Hospital and found claims that it was acid to be baseless.
"This is a heinous blood-libel that obscures the restrain exhibited by both sides," Eitan said, adding that security forces brought to the hospital told him that they had no idea why they were hospitalized in the first place.
This is an unedited word for word copy. Do you believe it now? The media is left-bias and Sharon has done a deal to find any lies to discredit the legitime right-wing protests !!!
To Israeli!
ReplyDeleteI cannot see any mention of SUEING as was claimed!
Am I missing something or was this another myth invented?
Orange fanatics and Meshiachistim think it is a mitzvah to make up lies!
ReplyDeleteThis sueing story was just another lie in a very long list.
These settlers are not stupid getting Elkman to collect money for them. These poor refugees are only getting an average of US$ 450,000 per family.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the wrong industry.
If Sharon is giving these "good for nothings" all this money I agree that Sharon is a traitor!
ReplyDeleteMaybe they should be paid separately for the acid, paint etc. etc.
Only Jews can be so ungrateful as to get such huge amounts of money and cry for more.
ReplyDeleteApparently over 50% of settlers only lived in the settlements due to the perks and government grants. The houses were luxury compared to most of Israel.
Well Sharon should have thought of all this when he let them move to Gaza!
ReplyDeleteThe Rebbe never told a chosid to move to Gaza as per the Rebbes letter to Geula Cohen!
The Rebbe also never said to throw acid, paint etc. What would the Rebbe say when people are being traitors by running to the goyim including Amnesty, the media, politicians etc with many lies to dirty Israel.
ReplyDeleteJust wait till these comments are quoted by the Arabs in the UN.
Unless these Orange Reshoim are stopped every Jew will be in danger.
HELP US FROM THE ENEMY WITHIN!
To Hershel!
ReplyDeleteYou can call the orange people crazies, hooligans, militants, fanatics, zealots, madmen but to call them Reshoim makes you no better than them. A jew should never be called a Rosho. I agree they need to rid themselves from all their hatred but they can still make Teshuvah.
Instead of atacking them we should daven for them to come back to the beautiful derech the Rebbe taught us. While the Rebbe was alive nobody in chabad would have dared behave as these orange people are.
WE NEED MOSHIACH NOW.
To Zalman!
ReplyDeleteThe torah calls Jews RESHOIM.
We are talking about people who are sending terrible anti semitic information or rather misinformation to the goyim including to AMNESTY who can cause many problems to Israel. I agree they do not wish to murder but if 1 muslim idiot gets hyped up by this material that is already on Arab web sites who will take the responsibility. The ones who post this vile anti jewish poison or the ones who try to stop Elkman and co. further put us all in danger.
Hashem Yerachem!