Yeshivah - Beth Rivkah Website

After many, many years YBR finally has a decent, modern website. The site - here - was obviously made with the purpose of advertising the school but it does have some relevant information for current students and parents. The page with important dates etc looks like the most helpful.

Of course there are a number of minor mistakes which I am sure will be rectified over the coming weeks - but with the way things are run in Hotham Street, that may be wishful thinking...

But what really bothered me was that, amongst the many colourful photos of students at work and play, the only photo of an "adult" was of Sholom Mendel. I cannot see even one photo of Mr G, Rabbi Glick or the many other teachers, principals etc who have dedicated many years to the school. Why in the world would there be a photo of SMK??!! It is enough to make someone believe that nepotism is rife in our schools. Maybe some of the recent comments made here are not far from the truth...

Apology accepted

I finally received a reasonable comment from "ump" regarding the last post.

AE I respect you highly for admitting you made a mistake. If my advice is worth anything then
1) delete this whole topic, rather than invite people to comment on it!
2) Delete any negative comments written anonymously against a person who uses their real name.
3) Do not allow people to talk in the name of our community. OUR, WE, US!
4) As you deleted Rabbi Gutnicks comments until you verified them, same policy regarding quoting a prominent Adass Spokesman etc. I will email a statement from Mr. Abelesz who will explain that this comment is twisted and malicious. It was posted to incite hate. Mr. Abelesz claims he has a sister in law from chabad plus the majority of his family.

We have no intention to threaten or close you down; all we want is that
this site should attack nobody but especially those good Jews who contribute
very generously to our institutions.

There is no purpose served to put other communities under the microscope.
This is definitely not the derech of Chabad.

I have admitted more than once that I made a mistake in making statements about other communities. It was obviously wrong and I again apologise for my statements which appear only under Aussieecho.

Obviously I cannot be at my computer 24/7 but will delete comments referring to individuals when I see them. I am happy for people to write to me at aussieecho@gmail.com if they see something that I have missed.


But - I will still write my opinions about Chabad and our modod. We are all members of our community and have an equal stake in its future.

Deleted post

One of the Highest Learning Levels - in Australia

This appeared in COL with the above caption. I think I need say no more.... (No personal comments please!)

Rabbi Shmuel Gurevitch, shliach and director of Beis Rivkah in Melbourne, Australia, was interviewed by Assaf Nagel in his Kol Hashishi radio program on the Kol Chai radio. Rabbi Gurevitch related that he was the second generation to shluchim and that his father was first sent to Australia by the Rebbe Rayats. Rabbi Gurevitch had gotten married in Israel but in 5731, the Rebbe had instructed him to return to Australia and to direct the 'Beis Rivkah' school there. Some 700 students are enrolled there today, many of whom are from not frum families. After they graduate though, they stay observant and build religious homes. According to Rabbi Gurevitch, the learning level of Beis Rivkah in both holy and secular subjects is the highest - in Australia.

A comment from the PTB

Finally a comment from someone who says he is one of the "powers that be". I am gratified to receive this as I feel that only by dialogue can the frustration that many people feel be resolved.

I certainly dispute the statement that things are being blown out of proportion. There is a widespread dissatisfaction with the Chabad establishment in Melbourne and I believe that most of those people feel disloyal in speaking out. The advantage of a blog is that they can express their views honestly. The sooner that the administration/executive/head shaliach (= PTB) will acknowledge this dissatisfaction the sooner the issues can be resolved.

The complete comment from "Chochom" is reproduced below (since I haven't got the hang of linking to comments yet). I welcome comments on his/her opinions but say again that I will not stand for personal abuse. It is true that he mentioned Rabbi Groner but I will delete any comment that speaks about him in a disrespectful manner. Rabbi Groner has been the Rebbe's shaliach in Melbourne for the past 45 years and has worked tirelessly for the mosad. Whatever issues we have with him now don't justify disrespect.

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Chochom said...

I am somewhat new to all this "blog" stuff but have been reading all these fascinating comments regarding the YCBR.

I would like to make at this point just a few initial points.

1. The extant & degree of dissatisfaction with the YCBR & the whole Melbourne Chabad community, including this nonsense term PTB, is presented by all the "bloggers" who have commented on this blog as being widespread & almost at a critical level, as if the very soul & essence of the Chabad character of our community is at risk.

Lets put things in perspective. Yes there are problems, which by the way exist in every Chabad community in the world. CH is probably the worst. Things can be improved & I do agree that people should be able to express their concerns & receive a proper hearing from the community leaders, both lay & rabbinic.

But I have the sense that the contributors to this blog really represent a small group of people, who probably due to their own personal experiences, which I can understand, have some real issues & grievances with the YCBR leadership.

The wider community, though they may obviously have concerns & complaints, probably don't have the passion & hostility evident in many of the comments made by regular contributors to this blog.

Maybe they are all just too content & "baalabatish" to give a damn. But maybe also they, on balance, recognise that we have a lot to be proud of & particularly those who have been associated with the YCBR for a long time, have seen gradual improvement & growth, both qualitatively & quantitatively. I am one of those, perhaps who you could accuse of being part of the "establishment" that remembers the YCBR in the 60's & 70's when the 1st shluchim to the YG came & the school is way better.

Secondly, though I actual agree quite strongly with all the arguments for more accountability, democratic elections etc etc.. but everyone has forgotten one of the essential features & "doctrines" of Chabad communities throughout the world i.e the notion of the "Head Shliach", who the Rebbe zatzal appointed to establish & build the community.

Now, I don't want to get into a long philosophical discussion on the pros & cons of this concept & I am very well aware of how this concept has resulted in our sister city, Sydney "self imploding" .

However, as long as Rabbi Groner is healthy & actively involved in running the YCBR, he will argue that he was (& is) the Rebbes Shliach & don't expect real progress towards "democracy" until there is a changing of the guard. This is not a criticism of Rabbi Groner, I would not be frum if not for his work, but this is the reality.

However, come that day, I am absolutely sure, that the "PTB" (which possibly includes me, depending on its definition) who are not evil, corrupt people seeking leadership for power or financial benefits, will have no choice but to reorganise the leadership of the various Mosdos in our community based upon more representative foundations.

This is both self evident, as Melbourne will never be able to replace Rabbi Groner as a strong single "Head Shliach" & is based on my own conversations with the YCBR executive members who all recognise this eventuality. Not only because of its unavoidability but also because they all think it is correct & necessary for a mature community like ours.

So much for my first contribution. A little lengthy but I thought these points were important to be acknowledged.

I don't spend a lot of time reading blogs, but I will look forward to any comments & objections raised by other contributors.

As an aside, its interesting how all the very "Chassidish" contributors who bemoan the influence of the Internet seem to be very in touch with this form of medium & have, what appears to me, ready access to the Internet & "surf" it regularly. But my views on this & other "worldy" matters versus the current trend towards insularity is for another occasion.

Yeshivah-Beth Rivkah - is there a future?

My post about Yeshivah-Beth Rivkah Colleges and the many problems that we as parents have with the schools has caused a lot of comment and a number of suggestions. In the less than 3 days since it appeared there have been over 1500 visits to this blog and 162 comments on this particular post. While this is gratifying to me personally, the main point is that there is a general discontent with the Lubavitch administration in Melbourne (the PTB = "powers that be") in general and YBR Colleges in particular.

I would like to make some important points before I continue.
· Personal attacks on the PTB or individuals are counter productive. If you are serious about change and improvement it has to be approached in a menchlich manner. We all know the truth of what "Maven" said here but we must rise above their tactics.
· Chabad in Melbourne is not corrupt, the PTB are not corrupt they are a group of well meaning people who, on the whole, are dedicated to Chabad and the Yeshivah Centre. The fact that the system needs a complete reorganisation and overhaul is the point that we must get across to them.
· Melbourne Lubavitch is not the only institution in the city with problems. Look at the Caulfield shul situation. Mizrachi and Adass have their problems (Adass, being like Yeshivah, sweeps them under the carpet). Kollel Beis HaTalmud have had their issues in the past. We are not unique as Lubavitchers and we feel the problems with our mosod deeply.
· The school is not always 100% to blame for problems with our children. The comment by "Bloke" (here) put the valid argument that parents have to take responsibility in all ways for their behaviour and that of their children. Where the school is to blame is in the way they deal with problem children.
· While there are, obviously, many children who thrive in the schools this often appears to be despite the education system rather than because of it.


The time is overdue for change. Not change for the sake of change but change because of the problems that are endemic in our organisations. Unlike some commenters here I believe that the PTB will take notice if enough people complain in a calm and rational way (bedarkei noam ubedarkei sholom). They may not do anything but they will take notice.

In my mind there are two ways to go about it. From within by organising meetings with the PTB and communal meeting to discuss the correct way it should be run. From without by giving up on the Yeshivah Centre conglomerate and forming our own schools.

With regard to changing the school there have been a number comments. Some from "Plotter" here which summarises the main issues. "Trying to be Constructive" wrote lucidly about organising a meeting here and the way in which we should approach the PTB.
The problems of lack of financial accountability and the non-democratic way the executive is appointed would be amongst the first issues to be tackled. If it ever came about that there were elections for a committees that would be a major start to revamping the schools.

But, when one looks at the way the Yeshivah Centre has been run over the last 20-30 years it would appear that there is no way that change will happen from within. When the PTB feel personally threatened by well meaning comments and suggestions for improvement it becomes virtually impossible to effect change. The only way to get anything done in Melbourne these days is to be independent - whether it is by starting your own Chabad House or new school. What is needed is money - and lots of it! I know very little about running a school but imagine that it is like any business. Rent, salaries etc etc cost big bucks. A school would need either one or more wealthy people who would sponsor it and/or a number of committed parents who would dig deep to support it until it got off the ground.
I feel that there are many talented teachers who would "jump ship" if there were a better alternative than YBR in town. As someone mentioned there is no shortage of young people looking for jobs in chinuch and other Jewish areas.


Talk is cheap - but it is a start. What is needed now are level headed and down-to-earth people to get together and organise. I am prepared to use this email address as a start (aussieecho@gmail.com) or if someone else is prepared to step forward as an organiser kol hakavod! It will take a lot of intestinal fortitude but will be worth it when we see schools turning out frum, chassidish children.

YBR Colleges – Enough is Enough

It pains me to have to write this post but, after all the comments on this blog and the discussions I have had with Anash over the last 10-15 years, the time has come for the chinuch problem at Yeshivah and Beth Rivkah to be addressed. The tragic situation of our children having less of a commitment to frumkeit than we would like and even leaving yiddishkeit altogether is touching many, many families in our community. Not just the less committed families but even those families genuinely frum and chassidish. It is an epidemic that is effecting everyone and we, and our leaders, cannot just sit back and blame the families of these children. We send our children to a school that is under the name of the Rebbe and we have a right to expect a certain basic standard of Jewish education.

Obviously the schools cannot take 100% of the blame. We cannot blame the administration and say “I pay my school fees now you educate my children correctly” - if we ourselves do not live in a chassidish manner.

I am going to list all the problems as I see them and some possible fixes and solutions. I admit that I am not an educator or rabbi but feel that many of the issues can be addressed by applying some plain common sense.

Judging from the comments made about the education at YBR I expect there to be many comments here. There is no necessity to name particular people who you feel are to blame – despite being loshon hora it will not contribute to the solution. If names are mentioned I will delete the comment.
Another request I would like to make is that you read your comment before publishing it. Spelling and grammatical mistakes make the comment difficult to understand and sometimes even changes the meaning.

I would like to make a request of the Yeshivah Executive and administration. If you are reading this I welcome your input in this matter – the best input would be to explain how you will rectify the faults. If you email me at aussieecho@gmail.com I will publish your reply.

As I see it these are the problems at YBR (in no particular order of importance):

· How is the money received spent? Fees are high, especially if one has more than 2 children in the school, but there does not seem to be accountablilty. Every organisation and business has to produce at least a balance sheet or profit and loss statement. For countless years money has been asked (demanded) from the communtity but there is no accounting for how this money is spent. This leaves the school and executive open to accusations of financial mismanagement.
· In contrast there are people who are not paying full fees but who can take their families on overseas holidays, drive new cars, have expensive and ostentatious simchas etc. This problem, which will certainly be pointed out by the administration. How does the school get people to pay equitably - this is a difficult problem wih no easy solution.
· The influence of non-frum children in the school seems to be out of proportion to their numbers. In the 60s and 70s there were more children from non religious families but many of them became frum or at least respectful towards yiddishkeit. Today it seems that kids from frum familes are leading others astray.
· Teachers, particularly in Yeshivah, do not have appropriate qualifications. Men coming out of Kollel are given jobs as teachers and, despite some of them being good teachers, have never studied educational principles. Even in 770 there are organised programs for Kollel men who want to go into chinuch.
· There is too much of an emphasis on secular studies -especially at year 11 and 12 level. What appears to be important to the administration is results in external exams. It is well known that in the past students who were not academically proficient were encouraged to leave before year 11 so that the results would look good. I do not know if this still happens. As Chabad schools the emphasis should be on learning Torah and keeping Mitzvos.
· It appears to me that there is a general embarrassment among some in the administration that the schools are Chabad schools. This is more prevalent in Beth Rivkah which at times appears to be a sister school to Yavneh.
· I agree with many of the comments here that Yiddish should be taught more extensively in both schools. Modern Hebrew is emphasised at Beth Rivkah (see point above).
· This brings us to the problem at Beth Rivkah with Hebrew pronunciation. I believe that BR in Melbourne is the only BR in the world that teaches the children sefardic hebrew pronunciation. I understand that a few years ago they started teaching the kids in ashkenasic hebrew but this was stopped after a few months. This is another way that the Beth Rivkah administration distances itself from Chabad.
· While on the topic of Beth Rivkah the issue of tzniyus must be mentioned. For some reason there is very little emphasis on tzniyus for girls in the Melbourne community. This is not just the school's fault but mothers, who are into the latest fashions, do not seem to care how their girls dress. Even so the school should be at the forefront and encourage the girls to dress in a Jewish way.
· At Yeshivah in particular only children who fit into certain parameters are catered for. If children are too smart, not so academic, have problems at home etc they are encouraged to leave. We are losing too many kids because the administration is unable and unwilling to work with parents and educational professionals to ensure that "problem" kids can remain in school. The saddest thing to me is to see is children from frum families being forced to attend other Jewish schools or even secular schools.
· The father and son learning programs organised separately from the school should be expanded as part of the schools. I would like to see father-daughter learning programs as well.
· The nepotism in our schools and community is becoming ridiculous. Guests who were here for recent weddings even mentioned their observations about this to me. There are extremely talented teachers, rabbis etc who are not related to the "families" who are passed over because of this.
· There has been a recent attempt by some young parents to open an alternate school where they could ensure that their children were educated in a frum, chassidish way. Nothing came of this as the organisers were shouted at and threatened.
· The one person who did manage to start a school to help children who had problems in Yeshivah has also been threatened. While the school has started there were many behind the scenes actions by the Yeshivah executive which caused them much hardship.

There are also issues that we as parents must also address seriously:

· We cannot abdicate our responsibility of showing our kids a living example of frumkeit and chassidishkeit. While the schools have their responsibility to provide a decent education we must follow through at home by learning with our kids and just showing them how a frum, chassidish person should behave.
· I have heard too many parents criticise the teachers and school in front of their children. How can we blame the teachers for not controlling the class when the children know that their parents do not respect the teachers and will always side with their children over the teacher?
· These days I see so few kids sitting and davening with their parents in shul. How can they learn how to daven and have a feeling for yiddishkeit if they see their parents talking all thru davening and “knocking off” davening in a few minutes.
· There are lots of other common sense things that all parents, Jewish or not, should do – know where your children are and who they are with, do not let them view videos, the internet or read books without your approval, etc etc

This has been a very long post and it has taken me a long time to write. No doubt I have missed some points and I encourage you to submit your ideas in a respectful way. I know that this is a sensitive and emotional issue for some but the only way we can make a difference is presenting our ideas in a clear and thoughtful way.